Beginners Engine Advice?

Hi All,

As a beginner to the hobby, I’m looking for some advice.

I would like to eventually build something that will:

A) progress my engineering skills

B) possibly work

C) give me the pleasure of saying ‘I made that’

D) be a fairly long term project.

I’ve got in mind building a 5” gauge loco, and to that end have bought the plans for Don Young’s Jack/Jill tank engine. The Jill version with the side tanks is my preferred choice at the moment.

Questions at the moment are:

A) is this a step too far, or is this something with not a lot of experience can achieve?

B) are there better options out there?

C) do I start with something smaller like the Pottymill for experience or just go for it?

D) am I mad?

It would be good to hear from the experienced guys out there if this would be a good start?

To give a bit of background, I’m an engineer by trade, although not in the mechanical way. I’ve spent the last 20 years computer networking building fibre optic networks.

Cheers

Mark

An ambitious plan to start with; have you got equipment, lathe, mill, / drill, measuring equipment, workshop / space etc, etc, when was the last time you used any of these ?, I hazard a guess that was in college or uni & your engineering background is in CAD designing etc as you claim not in any mechanical way. Not to worry, there are many superb models that have been made by non engineering back ground hobbyists.

A) nothing is a step too far... it's taking that first step.

B) There are always options... what is achievable with your present capabilities.

C) I would suggest you start with a smaller model i.e. as you say a Pottymill, Stuart type kit, 10V, etc. to get some practical experience first & to get to know your machinery.

D) We're all mad on here so join the gang...

As you have already bought a set of plans you've made a start. you need to ask yourself some questions though, do I have the capability to solder up a boiler to meet inspection / certification / insurance standards ?, can I form sheet metal, can I bend / solder tubing without kinking it ?, Can I make a clack valve / safety valve ( although these can be bought ) etc, etc.

I have a set of plans for a 'Minnie' but loco's are not my bent … at the moment! ( I don't know if I'll have the time to finish it ), I am sticking with smaller engines at the mo', the likes of Stuart 10V, 10H, progress, oscillators from plans from 'Elmer engines' etc. to which I can make mistakes without too much cost to material, time etc. & where I can get satisfaction of seeing them run ( albeit on compressed air ) in a reasonable time scale. You also have to factor in ongoing tooling costs that have to be approved by the finance director...SWMBO ! … don't be under the misapprehension that brownie points will get you every thing you want / need, ... it doesn't work, believe me! it only takes one 'Aw sh1t' to wipe out any you have accumulated.

Never the less if you feel like starting off with a loco; go for it, you wont know if you can do it until you try. I'm sure that there will be other members who will offer their opinions & advice, the above is just my offering. One thing is for sure; once you're hooked, you're hooked.

Enjoy

George.

As stated above "an ambitious plan", but you don't have to make all the parts at once. Frames are usually the first thing to make; this will involve some handwork with files, some hole drilling, maybe some milling if you have the means and maybe some lathework on buffers etc.

By the time you've finished the frames you will be much more confident and more skilled, ready to move on to cylinders or, if not that confident yet, the cab or smokebox.

Take your time and ask questions on here if you are unsure.

Join the local model engineering club, it'll come in useful for when you start on the boiler and need it inspecting by the boiler inspector.

All the best with your project and please let us all know how it's going.

Brian

I'd make the Potty Mill engine first. Then maybe one or two more of similar nature. See if you actually enjoy all that tiny fiddling about and drilling and tapping 2mm holes etc. It's one thing to think about it, another to actually do it.

A loco can take up to a thousand hours of work or more. Many are those who have felt overwhelmed part way through and given up.

So its nice to have those couple of simpler projects sitting on display in the house to give you encouragement to keep going when things get tough.

Plus, it gives you a chance to prove your machinery and your own skills on lesser projects before embarking on the big one.

Edited By Hopper on 03/11/2018 07:12:30

Thanks gents for the comments.

I am planning on joining my local club. As for a loco, it’s going to be a while yet, as I have a couple of toolmaking projects on the go at the minute. I’m not exactly mr speedy.

I’m enjoying the process, I just wanted to sound out ideas.

Many thanks once again

Mark

Before you make a loco, consider the cost of materials and where you are going to run it.

Consider

Are you most interested in building it or running it or both?

Tooling, how big & expensive will limit the size of model you can make.

Cost of castings, some can give you a nasty wallet attack as can some suppliers.

As others have said If loco where can you run it?

Above all make sure you really want to build that particular model.

Build a Pottymill and take careful note of how long it takes and how good or bad your learner skills are in practice. The Pottymill is a lot simpler than a loco and, although there's no brazing, casting work, or boiler to worry about, you have to understand the plans, source the materials and tools, work out how to machine the parts, and then assemble them. It will help calibrate your abilities and expectations.

Some people take to machining like a duck to water. Not me! Slow, clumsy, semi-skilled and likely to make small mistakes. It would take me years to make a 5" loco and I'd have to reorganise my workshop to accommodate a big model. But don't be put off by my incompetence - you might be a fast, accurate worker. Or not! Making something fairly basic with a few challenges like the Pottymill will tell you what you need to know.

Dave

Oh boy, try and find a project you want to do and stick solely to the tooling necessary where possible. It's not easy and to be fair i have also gone astray into wallet decimation. But i did buy a lathe which i thought was as big as i'd ever need, and did more or less the same with the mill (could have been a TAD bigger but oh well).

I recall hearing, what i reckon to be pretty true, that it's probably better to approach it from a D.I.Y/maker/"home-gamer" background, because your expectations are probably in line with what the lathe/mill can do... 

On the other hand, if you went into it because it's kinda what you did at work then you're more likely to not find satisfaction without spending the same amount as your boss. The only benefit is that you're already familiar with the whole measuring and reading prints etc.. 

Having said that/ Alot of small machines now are made to a very good standard and will cut decent amounts of metal away if you take your time. I'd go for a "Seig" style machine.. 

Now technically, it is possible to get away with just a mill, if you're not too fussed about buying in shafts and bushing where necessary but i haven't seen many go down this route. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 03/11/2018 18:46:21

Mark, like you I am a beginner too and I decided, with my Dad to start on a Stuart No. 1 steam engine. We have been preparing and “tooling up” for about a year and have recently started out project. Nothing too complicated and lots of learning experiences to be had.

Mark

Edited By Mark Gould 1 on 05/11/2018 17:34:35

Edited By Mark Gould 1 on 05/11/2018 17:35:02

Thanks Gents for your comments and direction.

I bought Kozo’s Pennsylvania A3 Switcher book about 3 months ago from Camden Minatures. Because of supply issues, it turned up this week.

Wow. What a book. It goes into great detail on set up, jigs and general machining issues from a beginners perspective. I am pretty taken with the end product as well.

The only issue is that the book and all dimensions are based on 3/4” scale (3 1/2” gauge) and although there is a complete section on 1 1/2” scale with redesigned boiler etc, I really want to build to 1” scale for 5” gauge.

I’m going to keep thinking about it for the moment.

Cheers

Mark

I have made my decision regarding this. I have decided to have a go at building LBSC's Pansy.

A few of things conspired to making this decision:

1) Doug Hewson is running a 'Update' series in Model Engineer (and I have just taken out a subscription)

2) It was what I first wanted to build, but I didn't fancy the bending and fitting work of the pannier tanks... I still don't, but if you don't push yourself, you don't move forward, I'm just going to have to go for it.

3) The GWR 5700 series was the first engine I had as a kid, and I can still remember the Hornby 'steam' experience with the fluid down the chimney.

4) I must be mad.

There are loads of things I'm not really looking forward to, the crank axle and the horrendously expensive cylinder casting being just 2. But there are loads that I am. I can see this being a long term build, but I'm in no rush.

One of the first things I need to do is to join a local engineering club, I have a couple to choose from locally, I will get around to both and have a look around.

I bought 3 full volumes of Model Engineer (118,119 and 120) covering LBSC's full words and music of the build and over the last couple of days have scanned every page and PDF'd and collated the lot into one large file. The build was covered every other ME, but LBSC wrote every issue back then, there are loads of interesting articles in the intervening issues.

I have seen during my research that there are some issues with the plans, I'm hoping these will present themselves during Doug's Updates - any pointers from the combined wisdom here would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Mark