Beginners lathe

Hi all, I would like to get some advice about buying a lathe. I am retired, living in Spain and have been making models of one sort or another for most of my life. Although I have been interested in model engineering I have not been able to take this hobby up until now.

There are two lathes that I am interested in, the Sieg C0 and the TaigPeatol. I have not found any other similar that are new and within the same budget.

The reasons are as follows: my max budget for the lathe only is £300 appx, I cannot justify spending more, if the tailstock and motor are added to the Taig they both come in slightly less then this figure. The weight, both are very portable, even if I could increase my budget for a bigger lathe there is no way I could consider manhandling 40kgs plus, especially from UK. It would have to be new, I do not have the knowledge to check out a second hand one.

I know I would be restricted with what I could do on these small lathes but having searced the web sites I am amazed what some people have achieved. I am leaning towards the Taig at the moment because the capacity is a little bigger plus the ability to raise the ctr height, there appears to be a lot more accesories available and there is a lot more info on the web on its use.

I look forward to your coments.

___ ^^^ ___

Hi Michael, I don't understand your post!

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Sorry, Brian ... I was just 'bumping' your thread to the top of the list, before it got lost.

MichaelG.

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P.S. ... useful pages, about the Taig/Peatol here: **LINK**

http://www.jeffree.co.uk/modelengineering.html

Thanks Michael, still a bit new to symbols used in posts!

Before deciding on a lathe to buy you need to consider carefully what you intend to make with it. Perhaps you should tell us then you might get some good advice from this forum.

Personally of the two you mention I would go for the Seig as it looks more like a small version of a "proper" lathe but I have no experience of either.

Russell (25 km from the Spanish border, in France)

Of the two, I'd suggest the Seig.

I did consider a Taig/Peatol when I started researching lathes myself in 2002. I didn't get one. There are so many 'accessories' needed to make it usable that as a beginner I got lost. What was important, what could I do without, and what would be good to have? I didn't have enough knowledge at the time to know the answers to these questions. I was also concerned that I'd end up fitting the things wrong & not having enough knowledge to know if it was me or the lathe that was at fault.

The next thing you need to do is to think of what size work you want to do. The Seig is small. and suggests 125mm between centres. To avoid all sorts of gymnastics with the toolpost & re-setting it to machine stuff near the tailstock, you'll be looking at an easily worked length of 75mm. That is really very small. I mostly machine pens & don't think that's big enough, and pens are not very large! Think long & hard about the size of work you expect to do, and then try to save up for a machine with at least twice that capacity in distance between centres and 1.5x to 2x that capacity in diameter. That will mean you don't grow out of the machine too fast and it'll speed you up on the stuff you expect to do - no need for frequent re-setting of the tool to work at the tailstock etc..

Axial power feed is very important if you can get it, and screw cutting may save you a fortune on taps & dies - it's a trade-off on price there. I don't have a powered cross feed, and for the use I have, I don't really need it on my machine. However, you may want to do items with greater diameter than height regularly, so a cross feed would be good.

The more gizmos a lathe has, it means two things a) the more things a novice can get wrong, but also b) the more things a novice can do. To get the same quality of work from a basic machine is more difficult and needs more skill from the machinist. The best machinists can turn fantastic work from unbelievably basic machines (I saw a video once of a guy with a pole lathe and hand tools machining steel to 0.1mm accuracy. The novice can't do this.)

So, my advice on which lathe to choose from the two you have suggested is 'Neither', for the reasons specified. But if it absolutely has to be one of the two, then I'd suggest the Seig, because there'll be less chance of fitting bits wrong.

What did I choose in 2002? The Warco equivalent of the Clarke CL500M (20" between centres, 12" swing), which I have not grown out of despite doing a great deal bigger stuff on it than I originally expected when I first thought a Taig/Peatol would be sufficient.

Regards,

Richard.

I must admit that the Seig does look the part but I don't want that to sway me. I will be quite happy to make small stationary steam engines and any other small projects. Even with a bigger lathe I realise that making large locomotives or traction engines are out of my league.

Brian (near Huercal Overa in Almeria province)

Hi Richard, thank you for your reply, my last post was added before I saw it.

There are important things I have to consider before making my decision. I have to get the equipment from th UK, have been unable to find suppliers out here. Also the only help I will get is from people online like yourself, cannot find anyone in reasonable distant.

You might want to look at the Sieg C0 customer reviews on the Axminster Power Tool site, they are not very positive. As a starting lathe, buying something that needs a lot of fettling to get it in a reasonable state isn't a great idea. Versions from other vendors, Arc Eurotrade come to mind (see link here) may be better finished. The small Sieg machine tools with DC motors and electronic speed control also have a reputation for blowing their electronic controller up - this could be a problem when you start and take an incautious cut depth or something digs in.

At various times I've looked at getting a small lathe for odd jobs when the Myford is set up for something else and the Peatol looked quite good, but I was always a bit unimpressed by the C0 looking at it at exhibitions.

I had a Taig fron Peatol in the UK. First home lathe. I used it for making bits and bobs. Part of the reason for buying it was a pending change of job so couldn't use one at work any more.

I bought most of the bits that are available for it and used all of them. The tailstock isn't brilliant but does work. It was a very precise lathe initially but eventually the headstock distorted so it started turning several thou taper over say 4" or so. I've heard that even clock makers get this problem but probably not to the same degree. I did one job on mine repairing a part for a larger lathe with the riser block on that made the taper a lot worse. I don't think that a C0 would be capable of doing this particular job - not sufficient power at the rpm level I needed to use. Also I doubt if it is rigid enough. The Taig i had used a 1/4hp motor and belt drive. Some now come with a variable speed universal brushed motor that wouldn't offer the same power levels. Heavier work with the riser block on probably isn't a good idea anyway. It's intended to allow steam engine etc flywheels to be skimmed up.

One thing about them is a fact. Buy the kit for them and they can be used to make all sorts of things. They even mill rather well via the vertical slide. All of the parts are well made too.

As to the C0, the baby lathe some one called Brian in Australia is making stirling engines and others on one. An Opti model, not Sieg. It had some serious problems but that doesn't mean all are like that. Before he bought it he was probably warned that it's too small really for what he wants to do with it. He now wishes for something bigger. That hasn't taken long. Brian has done remarkable well with it but some one did some work on the lathe first. Not just fix the fault that if any one of many people on here would have spotted pretty quickly and sent it back.

My advice would be to forget both machines and buy a mini lathe. Lathes aren't naturally light weight machines and Chinese lathes are built at a cost not to be as good as a lathe the size of a baby lathe could be. Same's true of the mini lathe which is the next size up but there are a number of improvements not least an increase in centre distance plus screw cutting indicators on some. While you may not think you need the increase in centre distance you will when you drill holes in work. Brian managed to buy a set of stub drills which helps. He's in Australia and they are easy to find there. Even the 14" on some mini lathes is rather short really. 18" is a favoured minimum centre distance but probably a bit over the top for a lot of model engineering type work.

I had a look on ebay in spain out of curiosity. Plenty of UK and German lathe listings and some Spanish for Optimum. Prices look high to me probably as the Spanish company only has to compete with sellers from other countries. I haven't checked UK prices though.

If you do buy a mini lathe I would be inclined to suggest this one or similar from the same seller,

**LINK**

Mainly because it has a larger centre distance than some BUT also because it comes with a screw cutting indicator. In fact I think that the metric version comes with 2 gears for that which allow all of the usual metric pitches to be cut without having to stop and reverse the lathe. His website is called Amadeal. I've only ever bought tooling of them but no complaints about anything I have bought.

I wondered if their was a machinemart branch in spain. Google bought this up. Don't know if it will help

**LINK**

Probably not but maybe.

As to the 2 mentioned to be honest if it was for me I could think of good reasons for buying either of them but don't think that either is really suitable for the intended use.

John

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Brian,

Although they are probably out of your intended price range ... have a look around the Sherline web-site:

**LINK**

http://sherline.com/

Loads of good information there; which might help you decide what features are important to you.

MichaelG.

Here is a list of model railway sites all over Spain. If there is one near you someone there would be able to give you advice on buying machine tools in Spain.

If buying a new lathe it might be better to buy one in Spain for after sales service. For example this company sell a wide range of what look like Seig machines.**LINK**

Russell

I once spent some time finding out what Shereline's idea of accuracy in terms of alignment was. Not easy to find. I wasn't impressed.

The site Russell linked to offer the longer bed version of the mini lathe. Maybe there are also sellers in Spain who sell the lathes along with the accessories that are likely to be needed. Sometimes that way works out cheaper. The usual things that are needed are, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, drill chuck, fixed steady, turning tools and faceplates can be useful as can centres. People usually want a quick change toolpost as well eventually. Screw cutting needs a set of gears with these lathes. Often they always come with those.

I didn't have much trouble finding a selller in Spain either

**LINK**

One thing to add on weight it's often the shipping weight so don't assume the lathe must weigh 40kg. it wont be far off it though.

John

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John,

If it wasn't easy; perhaps you could share it

... save everyone else struggling to find it.

MichaelG.

Thank you all for your comments. I have looked at Spanish sites but prices are generally half as much again as the UK. It would appear from what you are saying that I will be wasting my time proceeding with one of the two lathes I originally mentioned, so I really don't know what to do. As I can't alter my original limitations perhaps I should reconsider if this hobby is right for me so I won't be disappointed.

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Don't do that, Brian !

Stick to your budget ... but spend it wisely, not in haste.

... enjoy the journey.

Something will turn-up, I'm sure.

MichaelG.

It was buried on their site some where MG. More of a comment than a spec and not up to what Peatol claim which initially as far as mine was concerned is over stated. It was better. Couldn't fault it even on finish. I did set it all up as I usually do - tight and also followed Peatol's lapping instructions. Just some time with a mix of CIF and oil. 3 in 1 if I remember correctly.

It probably wasn't a good idea to take a cut that might be 3/4" deep in one go with the riser block on. Incredibly thin swarf coming off but it is asking a bit much. It did it though. I have heard loss of alignment complaints from others at times that do much lighter work. Peatol suggests shimming it back up with silver paper.

Maybe the only way to really find out is to get an honest answer from a user or buy one. What concerned me when I thought about them was no spec at all. There should be if they have confidence in the product. I always feel that there isn't that much point in looking at the work people get out of various models of lathe because with varying degrees if hand work even a read dog of a machine can produce excellent work. It all depends on the time some one wants to spend.

John

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Well I suppose we'll have to go with this FAQ #1 **LINK**

http://sherline.com/standard-faq/#faq1

... which actually comes-across as reasonably 'honest' to me.

It won't be a patch on the accuracy of a Pultra, or a Levin, but basically they're saying that.

MichaelG.

Brian;

1) A fellow Canadian, John Bentley builds incredible models, and started (and still mostly uses) a Taig lathe.

**LINK**

If I could build the models he built... he even built a model of his Taig lathe. While I have no experience with one, those who have think both the Taig and Sherline lathes are great for the size.

2) My "go-to" lathe is an Emco Compact-8, it does 99.9% of my turning; my larger lathe sits collecting dust. Still, not light by any means.

3) I *almost* ordered a metric Sherline, short bed for my workshop for Christmas. The only 2 reasons for not, were 1) I don't have the workshop space, and 2) maybe my Emco Compact-8 is fine for the really small stuff I want to do - I'll have to experiment before spending the $$

Just some thoughts - a Canadian JohnS