Milling machine purchase advice

Hello All,

I am about ready to replace my milling machine.

It's from 1888, so I'm thinking I've probably had my money's worth and should now update myself.

I am favouring Warco's Super Major Milling Machine. I would value any thoughts that anyone may have on this choice.

Are there any owners of one ?

Daniel

I don't have one but a couple of things spring to mind looking at the Warco site. The top speed of 1600 rpm is pretty low. Far East gearboxes on machines like that can be quite noisy (hear one running at all speeds if you can). Some folks have had problems apparently with the R8 socket locating pin.

Daniel,

I have had a super major for the last 2.5 years. I am very pleased with it. I have had problems aligning the column square to the table and then getting the quill true to the column but eventually got it all satisfactory. The key in the R8 spindle disappeared ages ago but I have not bothered to replace it as it seems to make little difference.

Vic is correct in that the top speed of 1600 is a bit limiting especially if you want to use small diameter carbide cutters. At the beginning of this year I replaced the motor with a 2 pole motor and inverter control from transwave so now have over double the speed available. At normal speeds the gearbox is fairly quite, certainly no worse than any other mill I have used. At 3000 rpm plus it is a bit loud but it was not really designed for that. I intend one day to fit better quality bearing to the spindle. I notice the latest model at Warco has a digital scale on the quill which is a mod I did some time ago.

I bought mine with a 3 axis DRO fitted and I thoroughly recommend this. I have used this for all the parts of 3 x 5" gauge locos and lots of bits of tooling etc. I would certainly purchase another one if the need ever arose as it is a well built sturdy mill with a good capacity.

Michael

Thanks Vic and Michael,

The alignment issues you raise, Michael, concern me slightly. Do you think this was an issue particular to your machine, or is it something I should prepare myself for ? If the latter, how did you make these adjustemnts ?

I also feel that the top speed is rather low. Why do the manufacturers do that ? I notice that the smaller milling machines offer a higher speed range.

For the time being it would probably be sufficient (I'm yet to progress beyond whole millimetres; but I don't want to land myself with an onion (French expression).

As with my lathe, purchased last year, I'm trying to establish a tool range which will accompany me in future retirement. Vis; What I'm buying now will not be replaced. Or is that over optimistic ?

I completely agree with the observation of DRO. I did take it with the lathe, and it has become a fundemental requirement for me.

Lastly; what is the pin on an R8 spindle ?

My Becker is MT3. I understand that R8 seems to be the considered preference these days, but I've niether seen nor used this system.

All the best, Daniel

There are on the UK market several 'makes' of a similar size of mill, all with differences which might be better (or worse) than the one you are looking at. Things like table length, if that is relevant for you, as well as different collet and taper sizes, for example. So, my advice would be to look at as many as you can find. Perhaps at a Show (there's one near Warwick next weekend*), or trawl the web and ask for full specifications.

A further factor is 'How near is the supplier?' as you will need advice, spares, help, etc, and you don't want to be stuck too far from assistance, especially to start with.

* Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition - 13 to 16 October - CV31 1XN

Cheers, Tim

Edited By Tim Stevens on 08/10/2016 17:31:27

Perhaps because they have plastic gears? (I don't know, on this particular machine - I'm asking the question). Increasing the speed by means of external control in that case could be problematic in the long run. The plastic geared mills are known to strip their gears relatively easily (see other threads here) and speed wouldn't help in that respect.

They probably limit speed due to bearing sizes and gear wear. I very much doubt if this one uses plastic gears but I would have liked to see the comment hardened and ground gears as per the gear head lathes.

I've looked that these machines idly in the past and have always noticed this one

**LINK**

Tapered gib strips are big boon when sorting that aspect out. It also has the same drill mill capacity as the other. It might work out at the same cost with dro and power feed fitted.

The super is a lot heavier though, usually a very good point.

If it was me I would be buying the belt drive model but that's just me and when I saw how the speeds were changed to avoid having a back gear I probably wouldn't be very happy about it.

John

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Daniel,

There are no plastic gears in the head of the super major, so that is something you do not need to worry about.

All R8 arbours have a keyway in them that engages with a key(pin) in the spindle bore. It is not there to drive the tooling but to stop the arbour rotating whilst you do up the drawbar. Like I say mine disappeared ages ago and I have no issues tightening the drawbar. I have had the same issue on other R8 spindles including Bridgports, I have found that the threads in the arbour ends for the drawbar almost invariable need a tap running down them(7/16 UNF) to get a good fit on the drawbar.

The alignment issues I had were resolved by shimming the column to get it square to the bed and then shimming the head to get the quill to tram correctly. It was useable as supplied but gave problems if you needed to move the column any distance during a set up. We are not talking big errors here it was about 6 thou out over the quill movement.

1600rpm will be OK for most operations it is just a bit slow if you are using small diameter end mills etc.

I have found Warco to be very easy to deal with on the occasions I have needed to contact them. I can recommend a visit to the Midland show next weekend, Warco will have about the biggest stand there and I am sure a Super Major will be on it. I bought my ticket for the show this morning, intend to go Friday.

Michael

I thought I had seen similar machines that did higher speeds

**LINK**

That one with an inverter. Another with a dual speed motor. Both with test reports

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 08/10/2016 18:48:48

I saw and liked the Chester Lux at MEX last month which I think is the equivalent and seemed a good solid machine. The VMC has quite a following on this forum ( a long running thread which hasn't popped up recently). I haven't compared the specs but it would be nice to see them side by side.

I have a VMC. They do have quite a following and not just on here. I looked at several machines but decided I wanted a knee mill as that was what I'd used before. I've been well pleased with mine.

Hello All,

Thanks for the opinions/advice.

The VMC remains a close contestant, but I'm slightly concerned by it's dimensions. That is, spindle stroke, longitudinal traverse, spindle to pillar, etc.

The Super Major seems to have a generally larger capacity. If this is a good thing, or not, I remain undecided.

I did have a look on Chester's site (thank's Bazyle), at the Lux, and then the Super Lux really caught my eye.

There was something about it, which the Super Major gained on, but I cannot remember what. I'll have to go back and take a look.

As for proximity to the supplier, that's a bit of a non starter for me. I live in France and, although the local suppliers are as helpful & friendly as one might find in the UK, the prices of their badged machines (that is, same source as UK), are very much higher. Even after paying shipping it is much cheaper to buy in the UK.

Having bought my lathe (GH1322), from Warco, and having received sterling service as far as I needed it, I feel drawn to them, but still felt the need to have the opinions of the people on this forum.

Unfortunately, due to my location, it's extremely difficult to attend a show, although this would be ideal.

All the best,

Daniel

Afterthought - - -

Just to allay any feelings that I'm favouring Warco, I must add that I have also purchased from ARC€urotrade, and have also received the same irreproachable service.

All the best,

Daniel

Not sure if it's of interest or not but I moved house with my VMC a few years back and it was easy to split it into three manageable bits with an engine hoist. I had to sell a slightly larger machine some years before because the removal fees were so high.

Thank's Vic,

However, the local community has been informed that my next move will be to the cemetery, and some will need to come and help carry out my box.

Once done with that, they can start on the workshop and the general mess outside.

They are, however, welcome to borrow my digger to dig the pit (not hole).

All the best, Daniel

Well blow me at the Midlands show there was Warco with the VMC and Super side by side.

The picture is a bit cluttered but shows they are very similar size. The Super has a much deeper table (front to back) which is the same as the Major (round column type). I think the Super has 3 slots in the table and the Chester Lux has 4 so something to investigate. The Super has a heavy 'presence' due to the big head right close to you which might make it more rigid and lower vibration than the VMC. However the price difference is substantial so it would be a hard decision. Though personally if I had that money I'd get a Bridgeport.

One of the things that surprised me was the number of folks that lower the quill when milling rather than raising the knee. I was taught never to do this as it's obviously less rigid. I mention this as how do folks with a mill with a movable head like the super above work? Do you constantly lower the head or move the quill. Both options don't seem as good to me as using a knee mill.

Both the VMC (and the Chester 626 equivalent) are very good robust machines, which suffer from headroom limitations. I helped a friend make a 5" raising block for his VMC which totally transformed it. That, plus DRO and variable speeds make a very useful machine.

Never been a problem for me but then I've seen a number of Bridgeports with raisers on them so I guess some folks never have enough Z.