Mystery Object ... This one has me beat

In my experience survey markers are called monumentation. I searched for Ordinance Survey Monumentation and found several pictures similar to the one I have included from the U.S.

It appears to be a datum point. I've seen these before embeded in cement on peaks of "named" mountains in California.

You mean I'm not as bad as I thought?

I have to say that my first take on it was of a simple location bracket for a couple of pipes running along a wall (bracket bolted to wall). Guess that's too simple eh?

From the first photo, them small holes look threaded ! They would be quite short for attaching anything heavy to. For my money, it would be cemented into something, the big holes providing a good bond to the cement/concrete etc. That would leave a round corrosion resistant plate on the surface to attach something light to. Lets assume that several of these were built into a large building's wall with the small holes horizontal and used to clamp the flat copper lightning conductor up the side of a building. If lightning struck, would the electricity try to exit the embedded bracket and blow the wall apart - probably. So for that, I would discount lightning protection.

Do petrol tankers have some sort of gauge stick that would be slide into a couple of these brackets ?

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The plot thickens ...
The item belongs to a friend of my brother, and is in Somerset [where he was visiting]

A photo has been requested, but meanwhile he can confirm that the underside was plain.

MichaelG.

Hi, based on the photo with the rule, my thinking on dimensions roughly are; 2-1/2" where the rule is, 3" at the bulge, the disc 5" x 1/2" and overall height 7". The treaded holes in the disc, look to be 1/2" whit/UNC. This is my assumption just to get the size in prospective.

Regards Nick.

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Yes, I know ...

I asked a question of a non-engineer, and shared his answer, but didn’t bother to labour the point.

MichaelG.

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Try working from this one, Nick

... There is still some perspective on it, but it’s good enough for a pretty rough casting:

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I didn’t post it before, because I was hoping someone would simply recognise the thing

Which Clive appears to have done ... [ but there again, so did Dave ]

MichaelG.

That will make it a go-no go gauge for apples

I keep visualising something that had a WW2 bomb suspended from it but google did not turn anything up.

Hi Michael, OK, disc about 4" although I was thinking 4-1/2" to start with, but decided to round up (no pun intended) threaded holes probably 7/16" Whit/UNC. It might put the height at around 6 to 6-1/2".

Regards Nick.

P.S. Doesn't look refined enough and looks a bit heavy and cumbersome for a Javelin gauge though.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 14/09/2020 08:40:59

My theory was an archeological relic - dual cupholders for a Roman chariot - R2019 documenting that and the chariot VIN number.

Hmm.. should be RMMXIX but changed to allow boudicca to understand it...

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 14/09/2020 08:23:49

Having followed this thread with interest, I just had a thought to throw into the mix: the flat shape of the 'anchor' suggests it might have been designed to build into brickwork, i.e. set in the mortar between courses. Probably way off the mark but the best I can come up with so far . . .

Mike.

Seems very plausible to me, Mike

MichaelG.

Shadow's photo reminded me that another blow was struck this year against Imperial Measure (US English Measure).

The US Survey used the 1893 foot, based on the metre of that day and the same length as the 1866 foot. It's equal to 1200/3937 metres, approximately 0.3048006 metres. It was retained for survey work after the US adopted the International foot in 1959, which redefined 1 foot = 0.3048 metres exactly with 1 inch = 25.4mm.

A curious muddle has developed. Although the US federal survey fully converted to International feet by 1986, many states still have Survey Feet embedded in Law. Not in a logical way, because some jurisdictions use Survey Feet for distance and elevation, while others use International Feet for distance and Survey Feet for height on the same plan. (Yer wot!)

Although the difference between Survey and International feet is tiny, it becomes a problem over long distances and sometimes causes trouble in more ordinary circumstances. Apparently necessary to remove the top-floor of a new skyscraper built near an airport because the architect assumed the height restriction was in Survey Feet (local measure), while the airport safety restriction was Federal. The finished building was slightly too high.

US professionals have long wanted to dump the Survey Foot, but the idea was resisted by traditionalists. But now it's happening. Behind the scenes the professionals really wanted to go metric, but apparently that's a step too far.

Here in the UK we would never be so daft as to confuse ourselves by retaining old and new systems of Weights and Measures!

Dave

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Ah ... So you do know where to find the “I’m only kidding” family of smiley things !

MichaelG.

Here, in all its glory, is the machined but otherwise blank face:

. Click image to view larger

MichaelG.

Michael is never going to forgive me! I apologise, in hope of getting back into his good books. Be ironic if it does turn out to be a Javelin Gauge. It's not impossible.

Speedy Builder Bob suggested this useful list: not precision, not made for strength, holes are 2 different diameters, attached to something else, being bolted from the other side, if supporting something round, its going to rattle about unless there is a rubber grommet or similar, not "gas proof" as the surfaces aren't machined, not ex government, found on a playing field, has an identification number R2019, and thread form as a clue to age.

I'd add it's largish bronze casting, which suggests permanent outdoor use for a rough job not requiring much strength. Looking at the photo, the holes may be to save weight or material. Being unfinished I think the edges would chafe any rope or wire passed through them.

Although it's not well made enough to be a precision survey item, it may have a similar use. I suggest two of these were mounted on flat plates placed on the ground with a cord pulled taut between them to mark out the white lines on pitches and running tracks. The white-line roller is pushed by a Groundsman along the cord to keep the white-line straight. Quicker and less damaging to the grass than banging in stakes and pulling them out. The fitting doesn't have to take any weight because the cord lies on the ground, but it does need to be heavy enough not to move. Possibly the flat shape helps mark out radii?

Bronze has never been cheap, and this is the sort of thing that gets nicked, it was probably accounted for. R2109 identifies the item, perhaps appearing in the books as, TOP, GUIDE, LINE, BRONZE, R2109 - 2 off.

I'm ignoring any significance in the deliberately flat top and coffin-shoulder sides.

Dave

That's a bit over-engineered for a job that could be done with two skewers and a length of twine?
The blade being flat ended doesn't suggest that that is banged in anywhere either and if the blade length sans shoulders is longer than a brick-width then any mortaring into a wall expects that to be double course or lengthwise terminating - possible if a wall is built with pillars every few yards? Perhaps for the attachment of sconces?

Even for that bronze seems unnecessarily permenant..

pgk

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Already forgiven, Dave ... but not forgotten

MichaelG.

Hi, this afternoon went for a bike ride, into the one of the country footpath's surrounding the old quarries where I used to work, I know it's no proof of what the mystery item is, but I took a photo of one of the concreate blocks on which the surveyors mounted their gear on. I could only get a small distance view, but I got a zoomed in shot from the highest that I could reach and you can see the plate and pin that I mentioned in my first post. It is about 6" in diameter, which is bigger than I had though, but it is at least 20 years since I've seen one, but you can see there is nothing that special about the surface and from memory they were just turned, but I don't know if the pin was a press fit or if it was part of the casting, just can't remember if I took any notice at the time to one that I was standing next to.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 14/09/2020 18:27:07