Les Jones 1 | 01/01/2015 18:42:21 |
2292 forum posts 159 photos | Hi Daz, Les. |
Vic | 01/01/2015 19:30:48 |
3453 forum posts 23 photos |
Posted by Ketan Swali on 01/01/2015 16:14:16: So, I kindly request you to reconsider before tarring everything with one negative statement. There are enough forums out there dedicated to the good, bad and ugly for specific machines, with enough solutions. Consider also that the forums are there because these are the 'cheap' Myfords of this generation with thousands sold worldwide due to low price. Ketan at ARC I was making a statement and asking a question not slagging anyone off. Hundreds, maybe thousands of X2 mills have needed replacement circuit boards, so much so that a guy in the states had a small business repairing them at one point. Do a search with "X2 circuit board" and you'll find plenty of posts. If the new models don't suffer this problem then that's good, although It would probably have been a good idea to give them a completely new name. Thanks for answering the question John. I wouldnt have expected the motor and board to have accounted for so much of the price of a machine. |
Ketan Swali | 01/01/2015 20:08:15 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos |
Posted by Vic on 01/01/2015 19:30:48:
Posted by Ketan Swali on 01/01/2015 16:14:16: So, I kindly request you to reconsider before tarring everything with one negative statement. There are enough forums out there dedicated to the good, bad and ugly for specific machines, with enough solutions. Consider also that the forums are there because these are the 'cheap' Myfords of this generation with thousands sold worldwide due to low price. Ketan at ARC I was making a statement and asking a question not slagging anyone off. Hundreds, maybe thousands of X2 mills have needed replacement circuit boards, so much so that a guy in the states had a small business repairing them at one point. Do a search with "X2 circuit board" and you'll find plenty of posts. If the new models don't suffer this problem then that's good, although It would probably have been a good idea to give them a completely new name. Thanks for answering the question John. I wouldnt have expected the motor and board to have accounted for so much of the price of a machine. Thank you Vic. I am fully aware of the X2 story, and I am also aware of the X2 limitations unlike the 50% of the people who replaced the boards due to their lack of knowledge on limitations use/abuse I cannot do much about such factors, and the way people think. Both of these factors are outside my control. Everyone has their own opinion and experience on the bases of which they make their statements on here. Right or wrong is up to the reader to decide. The guy in the States who had a small business of repairing these boards for the X2 - brushed motor version - if you mean Uncle Rabbit, Native American Indian, then I knew him well. He was a good friend who died a few years ago. Ketan at ARC
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Don 1 | 13/01/2016 12:58:17 |
2 forum posts 27 photos | Hi all, I have an X3 mill which was new in a packing case and kept in store for three years because of short of space, I have new opened it and put it on a bench but it would not start. I went to Arc and saw Ian, He would not test the board and would not sell me a board because he says I did not buy the mill from Arc. So if anyone out there is looking to buy a mill don't buy from Arc as you might have problems if you need spares. Thank Ian for your ignorance |
Ketan Swali | 13/01/2016 16:56:29 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos | Posted by Don Gibbs on 13/01/2016 12:58:17:
Hi all, I have an X3 mill which was new in a packing case and kept in store for three years because of short of space, I have new opened it and put it on a bench but it would not start. I went to Arc and saw Ian, He would not test the board and would not sell me a board because he says I did not buy the mill from Arc. So if anyone out there is looking to buy a mill don't buy from Arc as you might have problems if you need spares. Thank Ian for your ignorance Hello Don, I am sorry to read about your experience with ARC. In response, I would like to make the following comments: If you read the original post from Daz in this thread, followed by the various responses, you will note that ARC assisted him, even though his machine was from some other supplier. You asked Ian for the board, but you had not tested the motor. It was strange that the machine was in storage for a long time (even though not purchased from ARC). Ian asked you where it was from and you replied that that it doesn’t matter – it is from a second hand dealer. So, we have no clarity to make a judgement. - Ian said that if the motor is faulty, it will blow the new board, so, the motor needs to be tested with the board. - As a matter of policy, we do not get involved with testing motors and boards for machines which have not been purchased from us, unless we have some clear idea of its history, or the persons history. - When Ian showed you the new board, you said that his board looks different. You purchased a speed pot and went off. - As we refused to supply the board over the counter, you tried to purchase it through our website, and we declined the order, because, as we had stated, if the motor was faulty, it could take out the control board. Also, even if ARC could have considered your purchase, there was another issue, which we cannot discuss here, out of respect for you and for security reasons. - Under the circumstances, it would be incorrect for us to get involved in an unknown situation. Electrical components are checked before dispatch, and we refuse to consider claims for replacement, especially when boards blow due to human error at time of fitting. If you provide clearer information to Ian about the history, along with answers to all questions which he asks you, Ian 'might' be prepared to quote you for testing. By the way, you suggested that we insert your USB stick into our computer to look at the pictures of your faulty machine/board, but for security reasons we are unable to consider this. If you still feel unhappy, that is up to you. Ketan at ARC. |
daz nosworthy | 13/01/2016 23:51:38 |
17 forum posts | Hi, I got a notice of this post, and wanted to reply, I dealt with Ketan a year ago now, even though I was upfront about the mills purchase not being from ARC I got a first class service from Ketan and Ian and would not hesitate to use them again I purchased updated boards, and took the board at risk of the same motor problem, but the replacement hardware has been faultless, and night and day better in terms of performance I am not being paid to say anything, I say things as I find them, my matters were discussed at length with Ketan and I found the response more than reasonable 1 year later the mill is going strong and I use it all the time, great stuff thanks Ketan |
fizzy | 14/01/2016 00:08:06 |
![]() 1860 forum posts 121 photos | I wanted to buy a replacement motor from ARC only last week for an X2...only to be told that there was no warranty what so ever, under no circumstances no returns what so ever regardless of whether the motor was even fitted or not, needless to say I went else where and recieved brilliant customer service...its only the truth. Can you think of any other retaier who refuses any notion of return or warranty? |
Nick_G | 14/01/2016 00:29:03 |
![]() 1808 forum posts 744 photos | Posted by fizzy on 14/01/2016 00:08:06:
.only to be told that there was no warranty what so ever,
I think it will be down to the fact that if either the motor or it's controller on this type of machine is faulty there is a chance it will ruin the other one. As such ARC has no control over the destiny of one such part if there is a chance it will be paired with a faulty item or not. - I hazard a guess that ARC has been bitten more than once with this and thus had to adapt this policy to avoid good parts leaving them and being returned ruined and obliged to then also issue a refund and chuck a recently good item into the bin. I have found Ketan to be a very easy going obliging guy. But a fool and a charity he is not.! I will also have a guess that this policy has been forced to have been brought in by a few 'pi$$ takers' that have ruined it for the many. Nick |
Simon Collier | 14/01/2016 09:07:51 |
![]() 525 forum posts 65 photos | Getting back to the actual machine, I have a Super X3 which is now 9 years old. It is an accurate, capable machine which I really like. However the board for the speed controls failed and I had the service guy out to replace it (from Hare and Forbes, Sydney). Also, the touch panel plastic had broken up and was replaced. A couple of the plastic handles have broken off the feed arms, and the tapping function, operated by the buttons on the end of the feed handles, now doesn't work. It would require a new main board to fix, and being labour intensive, was going to cost about $1000 (half the cost of the machine). Just now, the LCD z axis display for the spindle fine feed has failed. On my lathe, the digital readout display failed and no boards are available for that model now, so I had no option but to pay $600 for a new one (after I had sulked for about a year). I don't know whether my experience is reasonable or not, given the price of the machines, but it is intensely annoying. |
Don 1 | 14/01/2016 09:37:29 |
2 forum posts 27 photos | The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer |
Leo F Byrne | 14/01/2016 10:08:10 |
5 forum posts | I have always found Arceurotrade to be a very reliable and helpful supplier. |
John Rudd | 14/01/2016 10:32:09 |
1479 forum posts 1 photos | Posted by Don Gibbs on 14/01/2016 09:37:29: The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer I beg to differ..... The X3 mill motor is a permanent magnet motor with a commutator.....while the SX3 motor is a multi phase motor with position feedback sensors ..... Connecting either motor directly to an ac source will result in smoke..... |
Neil Wyatt | 14/01/2016 10:38:58 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | Posted by Don Gibbs on 14/01/2016 09:37:29:
The motor is not at fault it will run on a low volt transformer Brushed motors kill controller boards when they generate large high-voltage spikes due to problems with the brushes. I had a washing machine controller board fail this way. I replaced the board and the motor worked, but roughly and sparking. I immediately stopped the machine. I changed the b rushes on the motor and luckily the machine was then OK. If I had carried on using the 'working motor' I would have rapidly destroyed the new controller board. Problems like this probably won't show up when running the motor slowly. Neil
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Ketan Swali | 14/01/2016 11:07:47 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos | Nick G hit the nail on the head. Fizzy: In answer to your question: "Can you think of any other retailer who refuses any notion of return or warranty?"...The answer is YES...when it comes to electrical components. Refer to Nick G's comments. Still, happy you got it sorted with other suppliers mentioned in your link here-- for those who care to read it. This is the same link in which someone has a different opinion to yours, but as you say...also happens to be the truth. Also, what would you rather have? ...ARC being truthful to you pre-purchase of an electrical component, or to play it out with you after you have blown it? . The policy we have adopted only applies to electrical components for reasons stated by Nick G. If you still want to buy anything else from ARC - including non-electrical spares, we are happy to consider your requirements with normal return and warranty policies. If you don't want to buy from ARC, we are okay with that too. Every situation is judged on a case by case basis. ARC always tries its best to support customers who have purchased their machines from ARC first, where ARC knows machine and user history. Such machines are covered by warranty, and supported by spares at a reasonable cost outside the warranty period. For machines not purchased from ARC, history is uncertain unless clarified, for example: - What were the original components used when the machine was made? - certain motors/boards have changed - compatibility - correct identification by the buyer before purchase. A good number of such enquirers (about 30%) automatically presume things incorrectly and are turned away and/or asked to identify the components clearly on the website pre-purchase. - Or, there may be human error, abuse, ability or lack of, with certain potential buyers who are unknown. How are they using or abusing the machine? have they tested the motor/board and/or are they competent to carry out this process?. In our experience, we have come across the negative aspects of this element, where such persons knowingly or unknowingly blow a replacement component resulting from their mistake. Why should ARC be accountable for this?...some of them also say that they haven't used the said component, knowing full well that they have. Thankfully, this issue represents a minority. - Or, dirty power...I guess soon to be classified under the banner of 'act of god'? because try resolving this one with the 'electricity board' . Point is, too many variables making it hard to make a judgement call. So, specifically with reference to motors and control boards, we are happy with our policy, and we respect the fact that the buyer always has a choice. Ketan at ARC. edited to correct spellings...sorry. Edited By Ketan Swali on 14/01/2016 11:09:34 |
Mike Poole | 14/01/2016 11:27:52 |
![]() 3676 forum posts 82 photos | Posted by fizzy on 14/01/2016 00:08:06:
Can you think of any other retaier who refuses any notion of return or warranty? I had the ECU fail on my car, I purchased a replacement from a main dealer but was told that there was no warranty and no return possible once I opened the sealed packing. Mike |
Ketan Swali | 14/01/2016 12:01:25 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos | Posted by Simon Collier 1 on 14/01/2016 09:07:51:
Getting back to the actual machine, I have a Super X3 which is now 9 years old. It is an accurate, capable machine which I really like. However the board for the speed controls failed and I had the service guy out to replace it (from Hare and Forbes, Sydney). Also, the touch panel plastic had broken up and was replaced. A couple of the plastic handles have broken off the feed arms, and the tapping function, operated by the buttons on the end of the feed handles, now doesn't work. It would require a new main board to fix, and being labour intensive, was going to cost about $1000 (half the cost of the machine). Just now, the LCD z axis display for the spindle fine feed has failed. On my lathe, the digital readout display failed and no boards are available for that model now, so I had no option but to pay $600 for a new one (after I had sulked for about a year). I don't know whether my experience is reasonable or not, given the price of the machines, but it is intensely annoying. Hello Simon, I dont know if your experience is reasonable or not. ARC started selling the Super X3 about five years ago. Until then we were only selling the X3, because we did not agree with various aspects of the electronics to be found in the Super X3 when it was first introduced. ARC started selling the Super X3 after certain issues with electronics were ironed out. With Super X3, some of your issues sound very similar to those experienced by Daz, who also happened to have the old version of various control/pc boards in the earlier verion of his machine, and one which took time to fix, in a similar manner to yours. His machine was also purchased from another seller. Just a note: one of the photos show you using a ball nose end mill in a drill chuck. I am presuming that you do not use this practice regularly to hold end mills. Also, with reference to your lathe, which lathe is it? Is it a SIEG family lathe or some other.? In my experience as a seller, I have not come across any serious problems with electronics on the Super X3 within the past five years which I could point to a manufacturing issue. Any problems I have seen have been mainly user related, or dirty power related locations. We log all issues, so I can back up my comments. Ketan at ARC. |
Ketan Swali | 14/01/2016 13:40:25 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos | Hello Don, Had a call from the dealer who supplied you the X3 machine. Please get in touch with him and hopefully he has a resolution for you. Ketan at ARC. |
Les Jones 1 | 14/01/2016 14:55:18 |
2292 forum posts 159 photos | I too have had excellent customer service from Arc Euro. They also went to a great deal of trouble giving information about some reversing switches (Seig spare parts.) which I had suggested as a suitable spare on a non Seig lathe. I can totaly understand the policy of not giving any warranty on electronic components as they can be destroyed in microseconds if connected incorrectly or to other faulty parts. Even If Arc had a X3 in stock (Which they probably do not as it has been replaced by the SX3) I would not expect them to rip a machine appart to test your board with the possibility of it damaging other items in the machine and the time taken. Les. |
Chris Denton | 14/01/2016 15:59:53 |
275 forum posts | No legal requirement to offer a warrantee. You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc. |
Ketan Swali | 14/01/2016 17:35:48 |
1481 forum posts 149 photos | Posted by Chris Denton on 14/01/2016 15:59:53:
No legal requirement to offer a warrantee. You do need to abide by the law though, statutory rights etc. Indeed, and we do. Ketan at ARC. |
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