Sandown photos and thoughts on the show

Actually I was thinking today with a number of our suppliers now offering free delivery it does not take quite so many sales to break even. Just think of how many sales they make at a show, lets say 100 sales easily, say average postage £3 so thats £300 a day or £900 for the show. Add in how long it would take a member of staff to pick package all these back at the warehouse and you have taken care of one staff members wages. So could easily cover the cost of a stand if it were £1000.

Any thoughts?

J

Just a comment on Julian Atkins post referring to Robert Ingham-Clark & Co. I worked for RIC, as it was known, for around 12 years. It was known within as 'Rubbish In Cans' but we were very proud of our reputation even in the 50s- 70s and anyone referring to us by that monika would get short shrift. Being within Docklands we had some guys who were very handy in a 'sort-out'.

I still have a company tie. I have no recollection of the company making pigments, they were a paintmaker, some of the Ingham-Clark family were still involved even in the sixties.

It's no wonder that the colours used in 1947 were poor matches for the originals. The factory was in Silvertown E16 and was rebuilt and known as 'Minerva Works' as it emerged from the flames. While the factory was out of use the production was vested in another paintmaker, also in London.

Happy memories

Jerry

Ally Pally is VERY expensive to rent a stand.

People forget that staff have to include hotel bills if they attend a multiday event. I'm betting that the amount of effort that goes in isn't justified by the reward. I know a lot of second hand plastic kit dealers who have abandoned the big kit shows because they sell more online.

Also remember transport costs. Warco and Chester bot run 44 tonne artics, believe me when I say these don't come cheap.

The bit a lot of people miss is say you do Alley Pally you have a catchment area of London and the South East because peole always make the excuse it's too far to travel.

So whilst you are at a show you are selling to your captive audience but the rest of the country is on hold.

And no matter how many shows you do at various venues you will always loose overseas orders. None of the traders are big enough to handle a show and keep the depot open as well. This also doesn't take into account just what you take as well so you will always get people wanting something you left behind as it didn't sell on previous shows.

And we won't mention the tyre kickers who just want to spend hours over a 10p order when you could be serving someone who is far more serious.

Another take on this probably no one else has though of and this from a time when I was just a member of Joe Public. I don't do shows for models, models don't interest me. I used to do shows to buy parts and materials and tools.

Now said tool man has paid very, very serious coin to stand this show and I roll up and some Herbert on the door wants to take £8 off me to enter.

WTF ?? I don't have to pay £8 to enter Warco's place, or Chester, or Chronos to spend my money why should I have to do it at a show especially when some of these traders are paying well into 5 figures [ no not a typo ]

John, do Warco and chester not run these artics anyway and use them for more than just a couple of shows a year, so the only additional costs are mainly fuel so they are better off if they had to hire in transport just for a show.

As for paying an entry fee I have always looked at it like this if the fee covers what I would have had to pay for delivery on one purchase then I haved broken even, No I bought from at least 9 different traders at last weeks show so that would also have covered my petrol and more. Only one of those offers free delivery and a couple of the others have a flat rate which would is about the same as an entry fee.

Agree with the number of possible customers in one area which is what I said in an earlier reply

Ally Pally might well be very expensive to rent a stand Chris but there are over 50 trade stands listed for the January show. What that show does get is VISITORS. If you don't have a crowd you wont get traders. Therefore the primary task in putting on a show is visitor attraction. If Sandown Park is to continue into the future and I do hope it will there needs to be greater visitor numbers. The economics of traders are not really anything anyone can do about except lower stand prices and ensure there are more customers. Sandown Park is shrinking not growing.

> Ally Pally is VERY expensive to rent a stand.

It's INCREDIBLY expensive to rent an exhibition venue, and the trade stands and door also have to pay for the club and competition space.

Other than that I'm not going to comment on costs, for obvious reasons, but suffice to say running an exhibition or attending one is not primarily about making lots of money, its about profile, and in the case of the model Engineer Exhibition, supporting and promoting the hobby, particularly through the competitions.

Neil

I totally agree Neil. But do you think that enough was done to showcase and promote the hobby in the light of falling attendance? I really don't think things are critical yet but they will be on current trends.

regards Martin

Don't underestimate the huge effort that goes into organising and promoting the exhibition, particularly by Mike law and Steve Eaton, but also by the dozens of judges, stewards, clubs etc. Only a handful of MTM staff are able to contribute, and our input has to fit around full-time jobs. personally, I'm amazed that it all comes together so well at all!.

But there's no complacency, we understand the need to work hard to keep the Exhibition going. What we really, really, need is for those who enjoy it to evangelise and encourage others to go, the one thing that will secure the future of the exhibition is FOOTFALL!

Neil

Again Neil I totally agree and I am very greatfull for all the hard work that is done. Footfall is everything which is what I have been saying. Maybe you could start some sort of discussion as to a strategy to help this.

regards Martin

Neil;

If it matters - the show door made 40 quid off of my wife and I; two days. That's double the take.

I did pre-order some metric fine and LH taps from Tracy Tools, and picked them up then.

On Friday AM, the card lady sold my wife some cards; I think she said that most of the people that stopped by were foreign; NZ, Canada, etc.

Would have liked to pick up some 3-1/2" gauge jewellery, but nobody selling locomotive castings and small parts like that. Still, left about 100 quid lighter in the pocket, and a KG or two heavier on the luggage for the flight home.

I did put up some pictures with a quick description; **LINK** - that I (we) went back for a second day speaks that it was a good show, at least for me.

John.

So what makes that show what it is compared to Sandown? Is Sandown the wrong venue or the wrong time of year or just geographically bad? Not having a pop (I like Sandown) so much as trying to analyse how to improve things.

If it is about profile & supporting the hobby does not say much about MHS/MTM if they could not muster a stand

As I said earlier and Chris has said above someone needs to look at Ally Pally and see why 3 times as many traders go to that than Sandown. Forget all the arguments about web trading, costs etc 200% more still can afford to do a show in the South East but choose not to make that one show Sandown.

AP has a similar number of club stands and the display/flying area to teh left is as large if not larger than the competition/loan section at Sandown so they can also support the same non monymaking floor area.

J

PS I have altered the title as the thread has changed direction.

Edited By JasonB on 19/12/2014 08:02:12

This was my first trip to Sandown with the intention of entering the competition. Fortunately Neil and Mike made it possible for me to post my exhibit the week before and I would visit the show on the Sunday to both enjoy the show and collect my exhibit at the end, so a big thankyou to them for making it possible!

Being a 500 mile round trip we combined the visit to the show with a day in London making a fantastic weekend away. I had looked at the show website beforehand so wasnt expecting the show to be huge. Home and Workshop were there so I was happy! I always try and purchase something from these guys (and have not failed yet!) in the hope they continue to support the shows.

My experience with shows in the model aircraft circles is that the trade bring in the people and what puts the trade off most is the high cost of their pitch. Clearly the organisers have to make enough money to make the show worthwhile but in my opinion bringing the costs to the traders down is the only way to build up a show. Having heard what some of the smaller traders pay I`m amazed they make any money at all and it is just a case of keeping their name fresh in peoples minds.

From an exhibition point of view I would like to see more going on in the way of displays outside and this also applies to Harrogate and the Midlands show. For me its seeing models working that gets me thinking about my next project.

I was really pleased to come away with a certificate from the show but disappointed they did not present the certificates with the rest of the awards due to time constraints. The chap giving out the awards made the point a few times that a certificate of any kind was a prestigious award at Sandown so I think he could have found a few extra minutes to hand them out.

All in all it was a good show and a great weekend away so I will hopefully be doing the same next year!

Mike

I agree with Mike that the main reason I go to the show is to see the models, especially the new competition models. While seeing the older models displayed is quite interesting, if you have been before they become a bit jaded (saw them last year, sort of thing) The real problem is taking and collecting your exhibit which can be time consuming and expensive. The show, if you exhibit becomes quite a performance, you have to take your exhibit on Thursday before the show starts and then you have to go again on Sunday to take your exhibit away. The Judges are under time pressure to get round and judge the exhibits. This means that if you go on Friday you will probably not see their comments etc. I think Sandown is much more interesting than Ally Pally because of the competition exhibits. while there are only the good efforts of the clubs at Ally Pally which often tends to be a bit samey. Why is it so impossible for the two separate organisations to converge and make one bigger slightly longer show? There must be cost savings in doing this.

Alan

Having moved North twenty years ago the London shows have been to far and too expensive with on costs. The london venues I went to include: Marylebone Baths, Wembley, and Ally Pally, (The Horticultural Hall strikes a memory but it might have been another show) The more out of town venues like Sandown had not then been included.

If I was nearer London I would want to go to a fairly central location like ALLY Pally (my favourite) and not trog out to Sandown although if using the M25 as access would make it more attractive. I guess this would be true if travelling by train from a distance.

Now when I attended, I wanted to see the models etc and stands showing tools and equipment for real.

But I also regarded the entry fee as a mere start on the days spend. I suppose I must have bought a few items as per catalogue, avoiding the bother of post or telephone ordering (this was ye stone age!). The bulk of my purchases however were off catalogue, either special offers, being cleared at the exhibition, (eg a neat little Myford surface plate) a host of one off items and bits of material and items I never saw or saw listed (like refractory, breeze block size, bricks that were friable enough to cut up to make a mini hearth. The increasing size of Web listings may reduce the range of goods becoming available in this way and hence the attraction of the exhibition.

John

I did not visit Sandown for a variety of reasons this year. Thank you all for the photographs and comments made here on the Forum.

Years ago when the show was a Olympia as the Model Show including Model Engineering, there was everything including boats, cars, aeromodelling, etc.. It was at a better time when all the family could and did attend. MTM and MHS have a wide range of Titles, aeromodelling, woodwork, boats etc. Why not do the obvious and bring back a better more general show with wider appeal, including MEX as part of it?

Come to think of it, is that not what Aly Pally has become? The other modelling fraternity also need materials and hence the traders attend in greater number.

Just a suggestion!!

I recall reading a back-issue with the enthusiastic response from readers of MEW to the move back to the 'Model Engineer Exhibition' from the 'International Model Show'.

That said, I think we have forgotten how much engineering is part of the best of all those other hobbies. My Dad continually bemoans cheque-book boat modellers, but the exhibition proved that there are still brilliant boat modellers about. There was a fair bit of engineering in the Tiger Tank too!*

I do agree that we could widen the net and provide something for the distaff side and younger folks. But we must make sure that the competition remains the core.

Neil

Neil:

Remember that there was the Makers corner at the MEX - it seemed very busy when I was there.

You are creating the next generation of Model Engineers.

You are also creating the ties between generations, as (as I have found, showing my CNC Unimat at a Maker Faire here) that the younger ones know the computers, but not the tools in use. The reverse for the older generation.

I think it is very astute to bring the Makers into the MEX. Somehow, integrate them better, though!