Soba Vice Problem

G'day.

You could always bid on this one **LINK** that was brought to my attention on another of my favourite sites.

Regards * Danny M *

Yes; Chris is right:

You generally get what you pay for.

and that's especially true with tools. The same has happened with tools as with many other consumer products; the price has determined the quality. The more low cost tools we buy, the less top quality tools are available to buy, so we've pretty much shot ourselves in both feet by pursuing low cost at any price(!)

There is an awful lot of stuff out there that looks nice (and cheap) but is made of cheese and badly put together. Ultimately, we pay for the tools in the time and effort we have to expend in making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. That's difficult for someone starting out with a workshop, because it often takes expertise to be able to end up with something that works, is accurate, and does the job it would have done in the first place if we had paid top dollar.

For some folk, trading time for a saving in money is fine; but for others it's not such a good deal. It depends on what you want to spend your time doing, of course.

Marcus

.

To put this in context; it is worth looking back at David's second post.

In his estimation, he paid "a big chunk" for what he reasonably assumed to be a good product.

This is why I questioned John's pricing ... If the U.K. retailers really do make that sort of mark-up, then it would explain a lot.

MichaelG.

I think JS is using the price figuratively....

Speaking as a U.K. importer/retailer, I can assure you that costs for such vice are far more higher than the price mentioned by John.

I do not know what the cost for SOBA vice would be, as I do not import Indian origin vices...yet.

Having said this, I am aware that competition within manufacturers in India for this range of vice and their respective importers here, is very high.

So, I would be surprised if the the importers/U.K. retailers really make high profits on this product. Please also remember to add carriage and VAT before you compare prices with suppliers in the U.S.of A....where prices stated do not include any taxes...

Ketan at ARC.

Thought for the Day

.

Thanks for the clarification, Ketan

MichaelG.

We are assuming that the vice is designed so to be removed from its base, but in practice this is a bodge, and in industry you would normally get a fixed vice which would have more widely spaced fixing points.

If you look at the slots for the normal holding down screws on the base of the Soba vice, you will probably find they are significantly wider than the holes you are using. This is because you should not rely on the bolts as registers to ensure the vice is positioned correctly. The holes for bolts securing the rotary base are made smaller as they don't need this additional freedom.

On my rotary milling vice the 'rotary holes' are 10mm nominal to match the M10 bolts. The slots in the base for the holding down bolts are 14.5mm wide.

So, if you are using those holes to bolt down the vice, even if apparently perfectly aligned, it would make sense to enlarge them a little anyway, so the shank of the bolt doesn't bear on them. If enlarged to the same diameter as the width of the slots on the 'proper' base, I suspect the difference in alignment would be trivial.

Just to finish, here's a vice designed to be removed from its swivel base:

You'll notice it has broad slots, not holes, attaching it to the base.

Neil

I am not going to quote what your link leads to but it's a very entertaining work of fiction and is typical of the corporate BS that companies feel they have to come out with. A mission statement is another one that firms spout on about and means exactly nothing, we all know words are cheap.

Tony

.

See here

MichaelG.

they probably missed the memo which read...less is more..

.

Neil,

"... designed to be removed from its swivel base" [= swivel base as a grotesque afterthought]

If that was the only available alternative, I think I might be very happy with David's SOBA ... rebored as described in my first post.

MichaelG.

> See here

> MichaelG.

I've already seen that, but it's not clear what the slot sizes are and as it's a review it's not like the manufacturer/seller claiming its suitable for use that way.

It's clearly beneficial for those of use with smaller machines to be able to remove the base, but that doesn't mean they are meant to be used that way. if they were they wouldn't make non-rotating vices that were different from the top part of the rotating ones.

Neil

Sorry Marcus, you are wrong. Price does not ALWAYS determine quality.

There is good and bad in every price range, just as much as there is good and bad in every person.

I am aware that this is a thread about a product from a competitor. I am not prepared to comment one way or another on this specific product/situation.

However, to make a sweeping negative statement which suggests that a lot of cheap tooling is bad, is simply wrong.

Recently, I have read threads on this forum as well as others which suggests that certain products are not fit for purpose.

Has anyone considered that the person writing such a comment may lack the experience or knowledge to make such a comment?

Does that mean that the person making such a comment is not fit for purpose?...personally, I don't think that, because the person making the comment has limited experience/knowledge.

It is very easy to make comments without foundation.

You may agree of disagree with my comments, just as much as I strongly disagree with the sweeping negative statement which you have made.

There is room for product in every price range, based on a persons budget. I have seen customers with and without experience produce wonderfully engineered products on cheap manual machines, using cheap tooling.

To be honest, in my opinion, if it wasn't for the likes of Chronos - specifically, offering cheap products, you would not have the number of people that are in this hobby today, let alone 'the manufacturers' such as SOBA and other traders, including ARC, who entered this area of business, as a result of using Chronos as an example for creating a business model.

Trust me, this is not an advert for Chronos...just some honest truth.

Ketan at ARC.

Where's the Super Adapt thread when you need it ?

lol

.

It was wrecked by the comedians

.

Tony,

In case you missed the irony ...

"Thought for the Day" is a [sometimes overly pious] "sermon" on BBC Radio 4

MichaelG.

.

Sorry, Neil ...

I was simply pointing to a page that includes a decent illustration of the fact that the base is slotted.

[with the sole intention of supporting the observation that you had made]

MichaelG.

The swivel vice was built to a price. I guess that, in the design, the two holes used to secure the vice to the base did not need to be machined with any great accuracy, saving time and labour (doing away with the need of a skilled precise machinist). The holes are out, but that is fine in this case and there is nothing wrong in that (assuming the vice functions as intended of course).

All is fine with this thing, until it is split up and used it for a different purpose; so we should not complain and run it down.

To deal with the problem, either take it back and buy something more suitable to your needs, or use smaller bolts, and maybe put a removable locating bar under the base. Later on you will see how easy it is to correct the holes (I would run an end mill down one of them).

Steve