Model Engineers Boiler Test Code

There does not appear to be any viable data that addresses the question of "incidents".

Although it has been said above that the "new" variant is to clarify, the old words were just as good and all that has really been done is to complicate the previous simple record keeping, now with a complex record form that must be carried forward all the time.

Chris H and Neil have identified an important issue ie number of failures. I e-mailed Tony Wood regarding the number of incidents of boiler failure, whether there had been an increase and asked for whether there had been ANY incident in, say, the last 12 months. Whilst Tony did reply to my email the data I had asked for was not forthcoming and I am not holding my breath waiting for it. In my own mind I am absolutely certain that I know why. Perhaps we could take a "snapshot" and ask contributors to this forum to post in if they know of any incident requiring an insurance claim in the last 12 months.

I must also ask this. If the PSSR 2000 came into force as would be normal, in January 2001 - why has it taken 11 years for MELG to realise that it needs to change their protocols? Hardly "on the ball", is it? Perhaps the overkill is to make up for it.

Mick

Anyone interested in boiler failures should read "Locomotive Boiler Explosions" by CH Hewison

ISBN 0 7153 8305 1 These are of course full size, but it does show what can cause problems, and more importantly the inability of official procedures / rules to actualy make any thing safe !

Out of interest Who checks the writen maintenance / test procedure to see if it is correct and or satisfactory, and what will it tested against ?

Just another thought.......the Codes of Practice for the implementation of PSSR2000......defines "Competent Person"...(.for which read "Boiler Inspector" and states that for the drawing up of schemes and examination of minor systems he/she "should be qualified to Incorporated Engineer level with adequate relevant experience and knowledge of the law, codes of practice, examination and inspection techniques and understanding of the effects of operation for the system concerned."

Are all club boiler inspectors Incorporated Engineers who also fulfill the other criteria? If not then surely any scheme of examination or examination will be worthless. And there could be a serious shortage of boiler inspectors.

Mick

Edited By mick H on 23/11/2012 09:37:45

In a previous life I was a boiler and pressure vessels surveyor and as such was deemed to be a 'competent person'. In those more practical days a 'competent person' was considered to be 'someone with the knowledge and experience to understand, know and anticipate the likely faults and defects and where to find them'. With the number of surveyors required them, when we had a large manufacturing industry, had the surveyors been required to be of 'incorporated engineer level' the industry would have been woefully short of surveyors. Progress is not necessarily a good thing!

Chris

Have only ever seen one boiler let go, a stay really leaked within the firebox and put the fire out!

I think it might be informative to read the article on the front page here: **LINK**

If this can be verified, perhaps it ought to be circulated more widely.

Is there a model engineer MP who might be willing to seek views from the likes of the HSE or to seek further information from the inusrance industry?

Neil

Neil...interesting snippet that, and a cynic might think that insuring model boilers could be a "nice little earner."

More worryingly though, if it is correct that the PSSR 2000 came into force on 1st January 2001 and in the absence of any transitional arrangement (and there has been no mention of any) then surely the written scheme of examination and subsequent examination and testing by incorporated engineers were legal requirements from that date.

Nevertheless, from that date the MELG has published a boiler test code (blue book?) which was not in accordance with the new law. Presumably, therefore, any boiler test carried out from that date was also not in accordance with the law. Insurance companies are represented on the MELG panel and were presumably in agreement with the unlawful test codes. The chairman of the MELG, Mr Tony Wood has brought to notice in this thread that any breach of the regulations may well void any insurance cover.

It therefore remains to be asked, whether those model engineers who in good faith had their boilers tested and subsequently paid for insurance since 2001 were in actual fact covered or was this a case of mis-selling?

Mick

This country is very good at making everything far more complicated and expensive than the rest of the world, and that has been our undoing! What seems like a good idea whilst sipping tea, sat round a comittee table seldom turns out that way in the real world. Let me give you a good example taken from the blue book - if one is to TIG a boiler in copper, the material has to have a mill cert. Did a model engineer ever try to do this? Ive tried everyone I can find in the UK and no one wants to know (they will do it if you are a commercial outfit) so another rule which joe engineer cant adhere to! And please dont quote legislation telling me they have to - because they simply wont do it. And having to be coded to TIG a boiler - have you ever seen the state of a weld from someone incompetent at TIG welding....it will never get near a boiler inspecter! The only people who can make a bad weld look good are good welders! Bad welders produce bad welds, and bad welds leak! One thing they did get right is the prohibition of non deoxygenated copper - it realy does form micro fractures on cooling and is not safe fot TIG work.

There is a well known model engine boiler maker who does indeed TIG weld copper boilers and they are CE marked as required.

Has anyone else read the latest missive from the Southern Federation regarding the new boiler test code. Apparently the Written Schem of Examination must also be accompanied by a copy of the green book. However the code says that societies cannot charge for testing. So each Society has to Subsidise by covering the cost of the Green Book itself for every time a WSE is completed as well as the cost of certificates. This whole shambolic introduction does not reflect well on the hobby and its organisers.

I don't think that is going to cause many problems ..... The last Blue Book I purchased was only 40p .. That is hardly going to break the bank, If they need to cover the cost they can ask the member to buy the Green Book or increase the subs and give every member a free copy.

Dave