If starting again, what would you buy with a budget of £5k?

I'm going to come back to my shed comment again 'cos I've just been doing some quick calcs and the whole 5k doesn't get me a very big shed as it seems to cost £150 /m2 without allowing for the ends. eeek.

I think the car analogy is fairly apt as while lots of us can't afford a new car that doesn't mean the only alternative is a 40yr old wreck. You can find cars and milling machines just a few years old at a reasonable discount on the new price,
For example the popular on here VMC mill and older Bridgeports are seen at sub £2k as is a >10x24 lathe whether it is a far eastern one or a S&B 1024. So it is possible to get a fair sized set up for £4k leaving a bit for tooling and insulating the garage (since you can't afford a new shed too).

To be honest there is more than enough information both on this forum and the web in general to answer the vague question posed.

I have lots of machinery and tooling and still I can find more bits to buy every chance I get. 5k really won't get you terribly far if you're serious about engineering.

If you just want to dabble then a decent pillar drill, small vertical mill and a nice 2nd hand lathe would be the minimum and would start to gobble up your 5k in no time when tooling is factored in.

I also stopped adding my stuff up when I hit 40k and came over all faint.

Andrew,

While I tend to agree with most of your posts I am afraid your PS in the context of what Neil wrote is way off the mark. If some one wanted to play classical music for example they wouldn't want a strat! Technique for playing various styles is not successfully transferable across different instruments designed for different purposes. In the big picture it's a reasonable analogy.

To others busy adding up the value of their sheds - remember there is a big difference between perceived value and real value! For example try getting a dealer in to buy the contents from you and see what you get (or don't get!). For insurance to guard against your whole shed disappearing then new values are reasonable (which will probably be tweaked by the loss adjuster) if you have to pop out on Saturday afternoon to replace everything. The real value you can get on the open market for your treasures between willing buyer and seller is likely to be somewhat different!

Finally I agree these questions as per the OP are really unanswerable, an opinion I have posted before. Too many variables to even begin to quantify. It's natural I think that people with no previous experience will continue to post these questions as they don't have any knowledge of experience on which to base their choice. The correct polite response to encourage new people is to point out the top level considerations like size, accuracy desired and existing skill level and leave it there with no mention of brand names. Or politely suggest a search of previous posts as some do.

There is more than enough tosh on this forum on which lathe or mill is best, will hold microns of accuracy over 6', will take 6" cuts at 25million rpm with a bangood Carlos Fandango tool to drive anyone mad! Plain fact is there is a lot of very high quality stuff turned out by people on mediocre machines, buying the best machines in the world isn't going to gaurantee high quality if you don't know how to use them! The one thing that is guaranteed is you will learn a lot more about how to do stuff on a machine with a bit of wear which is a good idea because sooner or later your new machine will be worn too!

Paul.

I appreciate that different styles of music require different guitars with their own features. But I specifically referred to size. I'm not aware that playing one style of music as opposed to another requires a guitar that is ten times the size of the first? Depending upon what one wants to machine it would be quite easy to need a lathe that is ten or more times the size of another lathe.

Andrew

Can we not fix this with a 'sticky' based on all the previous threads copied into one big one. All we do is rewrite what we said last week and the week before that etc etc when all we need to do is refer them to the big thread

With the power of google at your finger tips it is not to difficult to assemble a list of lathes, suppliers and the size, features and prices of the machines. List your requirements and the final shortlist will emerge. There are some good used machines to be found but unless you can sort the good from the bad or know someone who can then used can be a minefield. Once the shortlist of new machines has emerged then you will need to choose a supplier and much has been written on this and other forums about the service they have received. Human nature seems to be, to complain louder than praise but a fair number of people have made the effort to praise good service on this forum.

Mike

Granted. But as I said in the context of what Neil said "In this case, I think reluctance to give an idea of what they want to do is rather like asking 'what guitar should I buy' without saying the genre of music." Coupled with the OP making no reference to size it was a fair analogy. Yes size is an obvious factor but the OP did state a budget of £5k for everything and I think you would be hard pushed to get a lathe with 500mm centre height, a mill (of similar size I would assume) plus the goodies, maybe a radial arm drill to match capacity and a shed as someone else mentioned for £5k?

Sorry if I am being a grumpy old git!

Paul.

I have a couple of Warco machines, a WM16 mill and a WM250VF lathe, and I am very happy with them - I think!

However I was at their open day yesterday. They had a Smart and Brown lathe (not familiar which model, but it did look nice), and two Harrison mills (one horizontal, one horizantal/vertical).

No room for them in my workshop. and it would need a more substantial floor.

But I could have had a excellent pair of substantial quality British machines for around £1500 total, delivered.

So I think if I were setting up again, but also only if I could accommodate them in terms of size and weight, I would opt for larger second hand British machines, if only one could find them at the appropriate time.

Martin

Well, to answer the question the OP posed :

Got to be second-hand if my budget is only £5K, can't stretch this far enough with new machines. Take my chances on buying a dog, make sure to try before you buy, and only part with my hard won loot to a dealer who talks the talk and walks the walk. Buy privately if you can but be very choosy.

What I would buy would be a Colchester Student or Triumph 2000, plus a Bridgeport. probably Mk1. I have probably spent my budget of £5K by this stage on the machines, and will be saving my Christmas money for chucks and tooling for the foreseeable future.. But I might be lucky and get enough to make a start.

A Start on what?

Not model making, not with that machine line-up. I'm into more agricultural pursuits. Hopefully I can get a stick welder out of my budget as well.

As I read the original question in the thread title, this wasn't about the OP looking for advice, it sought a personal opinion as to my own preferences for pursuing my interests.

But I could be wrong. (Again).

Wowsers. Looks like I stepped on a bear trap with this one.

Firstly I'd like to say to you guys who have been overly negative in this post; you must understand that when someone comes in off-the-street (so to speak) they are not going to be aware of the customs and nuances of your particular community. If there are hot topics or previous annoyances which your new and unsuspecting member trips up on, you really should handle such scenarios with calmness and decorum. There are tried and tested methods (FAQs, stickies, links to previous posts, etc) which are used almost ubiquitously on other forums and online communities exactly for this purpose. Taking wider issues out on the new guy is usually considered bad form. And to those who think I am an old member trying to intentionally irritate or inflame; honestly? Who has the time for that?

So before I knew there was a problem with people asking for advice on purchasing workshop items, my initial intention was genuinely to find out what you guys bought initially and what you would/have changed if you were to do it all again. The idea being to avoid any newbie purchasing pit falls, which tends to happen when starting a new hobby (I know this has happened to me in the past). I thought this would be more fun for you guys than a simple, "pick my machine for me" thread. I guess it backfired - apologies for that.

As limited as my knowledge is, I do understand that the capabilities of the machines available vary in some way, meaning that some are more applicable for certain tasks than others. However, it's difficult for me to pin a lot of these down since I can't say for sure whether I will be; "making model warships" or "boring out motorcycle cylinders", etc. I'm looking for a mill and a lathe to expand my workshop, thus expanding the possible projects I may undertake. Ideally I'd like them both to be a general purpose as possible (if there is such a thing!).

Perhaps it would help if I provided you with the machines currently as the top of my list (I should add at this point that, as much as I don't want to go reinvigorate any 'new vs old' flame wars, I would be happy to take suggestions for either): Lathe wise my two top choices are either a second hand Colchester Student, if I can find one from a source that I can trust or a Warco WM250 (£1625.00). On the milling machine side I've been hovering around the Warco VMC (£1932.00), which would leave me with nearly £2k for accessories.

Unreasonable? Way off the mark? What have I missed?

Finally to clear up a few previous questions:

• Not sure why you guys think I need to build a shed with that budget
• Workshop is a double garage with a re-enforced concrete floor and insulated tiled roof
• Budget will not need to extend to other tools - I already have pillar drills, grinders, etc

Ah, so it's all our fault for picking on you. Okaaaaay......

I guess any interested parties should decide that for themselves.

Interesting that it should be you who replied though.

Lee, as you have discovered this topic has come up before, the difficulty for making a recommendation is defining exactly what you want to do with the machinery, as I said before if you can define exactly what you want then the options available will fall into place, the more specific the question the more precise and helpful the answers will be.

Mike

To be quite honest, when I read the OP and first few replies, I likened it to a computer program input and output.

Rubbish in, rubbish out. If you don't supply it with the correct data, you cannot expect a sensible result from the computer program, however good it might be. Seems this thread fits that analogy quite well.

Lee,

Dont be put off lol. It seems like this topic in some form comes up a couple of times a month and it's not unreasonable to expect it will continue to do so. If you have not had a lathe or mill before, buying one to most people represents a significant expenditure so they want to get it right. Sadly though therein lies the problem, what is right for me may not be at all right to you! By the very nature of people they will likely give answers based on what is right for them based on their experience good and bad doing what may be a million miles away from what you envisage doing. Andrew's point about size is a fair one, if you want to make watches you don't want a Colchester and a Bridgeport! So a fair few will answer a vague question with another - what do you want to do?

FWIW I think given you don't know what you want to make, your mentioned choices of machine are not bad and will give you plenty of scope to find out (as long as you don't end up deciding you wanted to make a watch!). I was considering a Warco mill myself, as it happens I managed to get an old British machine which now I have it I am very happy with, appreciate its versatility of horizontal spindle and vertical head in one machine and I now realise I would have been frustrated by the Warco. But that is just me for my particular interest and I wouldn't spend time trying to convince you that you should do the same! It sounds like you have done some research and come up with a workable plan, so if you are happy with that, go for it.

Sadly I fear even if you had pitched your question in a different way and listed the machines you have identified from the start there would still have been negative comments, sucking of breath through teeth and comments "ohh I wouldn't buy one of those"! It's just a no win situation. Only caution I would sound if buying a Colchester is hear it running, bearings and headstock guts are expensive and try and make sure it has not been used in production for 20 years with the associated bed and slide wear. Other than that, go for it, you won't know really if they are right for you until you have them and use them! I have been using machine tools for 40 years on and off and even a poor one can turn out reasonable work if you know what you are about.

Paul.

Why is that interesting? Do you guys know each other already?

No, we don't know each other, but it was obvious who Lee's 20:43 post was pointed at

And to add, I like to think I have gone out off my way on a number of occasions to help people on this forum, but I really don't have much patience for guessing games, when the initial question is deliberately vague, it is a pointless exercise and just clogs up the forum.

Ask me about a Boxford 330 for example however, and I will fall over myself to help

Well a cracking way of encouraging new people to the hobby I reckon. Guilty til proven innocent, very good. Absolutely first class P R.

Paul.

An interesting short list given your earlier statement about wanting to make larger things.

Although the VMC is physically larger than the typical bench top "model" mills it has about the same capacity than something like an X3 give or take 10mm so you are not really going to be able to do anything larger on it.

Likewise there is a big difference between a student and a WM250, for larger work I would have said at least the GH1230 would be what you should be looking at if you want Student capacity.

If you do want a Student size lathe  and a matching size mill then I think your only route with that budget will be to go down the second hand route as you won't get two new machines in that size range for the money let alone anything to go with them.

J

Edited By JasonB on 11/03/2019 07:37:58