Cheap carbide inserts - where's the market?

I have had quite a few dodgy ones lately!!

I suspect poor quality rejects!!!!!

I just reground the top with a diamond wheel, worked ok.

Jim

2nd post.....

Here is the original video seen by a friend who passed it on to me after he had bought the set of Chinese tools/bits;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl-UIpH8PY4

Several members of Epping Forest Horology Club are now using these tools and there has been more thann one side by side comparison with some very expensive insert tools, notably 'S......tomo' and a certain Austrian company who were among the first to offer insert carbide for the small lathe user....the chinese stuff works every bit as good and the inserts are quite durable too. There are also available 'blue nano' inserts for these tools that are arguably 'better' and also quite cheap, however, as yet I have experience withthese.

personally, I still have plenty of my original ten bits and have had no durability problems or tip damage.

In my clumsy paws bench grinders are far from 'useable'. Tools ground by me end up with more facets than the Koh-i-noor diamond. I can shape basic HSS without too much trouble but have yet to sharpen a twist-drill successfully. My excuse - I mostly use small ones.

Now the whole forum knows my secret shame - I can't grind HSS properly. I've let Duncan down, I've let the forum down and I've let myself down. Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I think I'll go eat worms...

Dave

Starring on I'm a Celebrity GMOOH?

Going by this snip from Bobs linked video if he is happy with that finish then he is easily pleased  I think my dog could do better chewing it.

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2018 15:47:11

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2018 15:47:47

Well i certainly get MUCH better finish than that......However, there is more material on the video than that if you look,...and don't go out of your way to purposely be negative....... The fact remains that these tools compare VERY favourably in side by side tests with those costing many times the price.

Does "the quality of cheap inserts seems to be getting better" = "I bought twelve boxes and finally got some that work"?

But check out that finish on the Gold paint !

its a proper coating!

It can take some getting through with a diamond wheel!

When I found this I went through all my recent purchases from China, found 6 dud inserts (two in one box).

I'm happy to take the chance on the quality. Typically a box of ten DCMT070204 inserts cost around £3, so the risk is worth it in my book.

I did once buy some drills that were painted................

Jim

I'm sorry Bob but I have just endured the rest of that video and don't see anything positive that would make me want to buy his wares, if that is being used to show beginners how to do things then pity anyone who watches it.

A few highlights

Having told us the facing tool will always go back into the QCTP "spot on" ctr height a close up of the end of the bar after facing shows deep ridges and a conical pip where the tool is too high, have a look at about 10.15 into the video.

Now I don't know what sort of shape he was aiming for when turning the long thin rod but I would like to see the link to that eccentric rotating ctr he is using that is so out of true its a joke 12.30 into the vid

Also no wonder the footage of that first drill going in was cut short as it was jumping all over the place, 21.00 in.

It's the cut at 23:25 just at the moment when the chuck spins in the tailstock.

He is showing mini lathes have more guts than most people realise, but I think he's running those big drills too fast.

Neil

Yep, that was pretty amazing, if the desk hadn't been in the way my jaw would have hit the floor.

It is very difficult to judge surface finish from pictures, you really need to see, feel, and ultimately measure to get useful results. It would be interesting to see the quantative results of the side by side tests alluded to by Bob.

Andrew

How far along the Badger's scale does your RA tester go

Bob if the above is true then unfortunately that video did them no favours at all as the turning and facing looked awful. I have only had my lathe a few months but you soon come to recognise a good and a bad finish but does the operator in the video..? if the revolving centre is not ringing alarm bells it makes you wonder.

On the highest scale 99.9µm, which is pretty rough. It's about 0.1mm, and remember that Ra is an average measurement, not peak to peak. The roughest scale on my Rubert block:

is 12.5µm, and that feels really rough to the finger nail.

Andrew

That is the first video from that fellow that I have watched.

First impressions count and my first impression was that if he was sharp enough he would not have posted that video.

Sorry, but first impressions count when there is such a wide range of u-toobers out there.

I watch quite a few on different subjects but one can easily choose those, which are fully competent, from the rest.

I will take a look at one or two of his other vids to see if I could change my view on the matter. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a better review.

I’m certainly not a fully competent metalworker, but I know which, of those videos I watch, are by the better machinists.

I watched several more of the videos too.....that's a few minutes of my life I will never get back!

I was amused by his comment that there was an 'excellent finish'. I hope Mr Badger wasn't watching!

Anyone that operates a lathe with the toolpost wrench in position gives me the jitters straight away. It only has to get accidentally knocked off into the chuck jaws and you have a free face reprofiling.

As to offsetting the lathe tool in the holder to give more face clearance, why not just fully seat the tool, and offset the toolpost by rotating it several degrees?!

And yes, before seeing Jason's post, I also couldn't help but notice the wobbly revolving centre!

I watched that particular video quite recently and wasn't too impressed with the finish either (it's not a great advert for insert tools) - but don't write the guy off completely. He has some interesting ideas and executes them pretty well most of the time. He also does admit if (later on) things didn't turn out quite as well as he'd hoped - and explains how he's tried to overcome any problems. So whilst he's not in quite the same league as Stephan G. or Joe P (the Texan Spider Man) - he's no dummy either. I've certainly seen much worse stuff on YT, that's for sure.

He has tended to be a promotional site for BangBad stuff recently though - again that's not always a bad thing. Some interesting stuff gets a 'shove' from him, that frankly I might not hear about otherwise. I can mostly decide what I think is good (and what looks a bit Carp) and I don't have to watch anything that doesn't interest me.

A quick click - and he's gone.

IanT

I'm sure his intentions were good but I winced several times during that "tutorial". And that tailstock centre! Seriously?

Maybe videos like that are why we get beginners saying they are happy with their poundland inserts, if they have watched a video like that by a guy introducing them to "Precision Engineering " and telling them that those finishes are excellent then they would not expect anything better.

I think the only time the finish looked close to acceptable was when the boring tool was used to face the outside of the test piece. I'm not keen on the DCMT inserts for general turning as they are a 55deg point which is like using a threading tool swung over 25degrees. The only time it cut well was when presented with the trailing edge close to the work.

I would personally direct a beginner to CCMT and CCGT as they can just like the ones shown be used to turn and bore with the boring bar fitting into a smaller hole, don't need the tool setting at an angle to give clearance, less pointed end is more durable, you can use all 4 corners with the right holders, etc