Cheddar Valley Steam - is there a problem?

Baz

It was a reflection on the service others have got from CVS, not a criticism of you .

My background is corporate insolvency and debt collection, and so I probably have a lower tolerance threshold, as sadly I have heard all the excuses as to why businesses or people do not deliver, a million times over.

If it is a one off delay, that may be excusable.  If there are serial issues, and there are apparently as there are a number of unhappy customers on this thread alone, making delivery promises and failing to meet them, or ignoring customers, and keep taking on new orders with no real chance of meeting them within two years or so and not making unacceptable lead times clear up front, is straying into deception territory.  It may not be deliberate, but the outcome is the same.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 25/05/2017 15:26:13

I doubt there is anything mysterious as such.

By all accounts nobody has any complaints about his boiler building skills, just his business skills. It isn't uncommon in extreme situations like this one that the person just buries their head in the sand, in 'la la, I can't hear you' fashion. If you can't see or hear the problem, there isn't a problem. Invariably you cannot change this behaviour in an individual that acts like this, unless you take away the factors that lead to the behaviour in the first place, which aren't easy.

It becomes a fire fighting situation - you are behind with orders, people are chasing you. You stop and deal with the people that are chasing you, you get even more behind, so the only option is to ignore the people that are chasing you and try and fulfil your orders, but then the baying gets louder...........

The obvious solution is to employ another boiler maker, or stop taking orders until existing ones are fulfilled, but if that is your only source of income, that then creates other issues.

Rarely in my experience is it possible to simply work your way out of a situation like this, without some sort of changes.

David, I agree entirely with you, but what is the answer? Employ another boiler maker, so immediately you get in to PAYE, you have to offer them the workplace pension, give them 4 weeks holiday, that is assuming you can find one. If you stop taking orders there is a fear that you won't get work again when you need it. I can understand the head down and get on with it attitude, if you can ignore the phone calls etc you get more done. What is needed is a Public relations person to take the calls and keep all the customers happy, but they also need PAYE, workplace pension etc and don't increase productivity, also despite us all paying a couple of thousand pounds for our boilers I doubt if there is a great profit margin to cover these costs. I think we have to be thankful Tim is still trading, maybe not as efficiently as some would like, and having very extended deliveries, the only real alternative is to make a set of flanging formers and have a go yourself.

Sorry Baz i dont buy that argument. We are not talking about pennies here and anyone who runs a business has responsibilities and regulations that have to be addressed and dealt with. If you cant do that then you shouldnt be in business.

Do we actually know when a boiler last came out of the premises?

From this thread, it would appear that his 'behind time' will be somewhat reduced due to his non-replies to paid-up ex-customers.

Yes you would think so but dont hold your breath.

I would really like to know when a boiler was last completed and how long it took??

CVS is still booked in for the Bristol show as a trader - interesting to see if he turns up and if so to hear what he has to say for himself. The website shows no changes / problems. I am sticking with my order for now, certainly until after the show

REALLY? One would have thought he had more important things to do. After all what is he after more orders??

Baz

There isn't an easy answer.

Have CVS ever failed to deliver, eventually?

Anyone caught up in the same delay basically has three options:

If you haven't ordered yet, don't want to wait, and take a chance that there might be a boiler at the end of it, walk away.

Two, pay your deposit if you can wait, and assume your boiler will turn up eventually.

Three, if you have already paid your deposit and you don't want to wait two years, fight to get it back, and walk.

Hi Bob,

I have never had any dealing with Cheddar, and appreciate the lack of communication must be more than annoying.

However, it is very well known that there is a very long waiting list with most commercial miniature boiler makers.

Why don't you make the boiler for your Bantam Cock yourself? It is a nice easy boiler to build and should not take more than 6 weeks spare time and even less if you buy a boiler kit for it. I would leave out the combustion chamber though, and add a double flanged throatplate.

Would save you a great deal of time and money compared to a commercial one!

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Julian

Nice to hear from you again, It certainly is frustrating, i wouldnt mind if I had had a mail to say sorry Im way behind with an idea of timescale.

However i did consider a self build but having only build garden railway boilers in the past I doubt my skill level in that field and i certainly dont have the heating equipment to undertake such a task. I have therefore ordered from another supplier without the combustion chamber as you suggested, it is a bit of a wait but at least i know it will be forthcoming. All that remains now is to try and recover my deposit from CVS.Thanks for you input.

Regards

Bob

Julian,

I had exactly the same thought on this thread i.e., why not try to build or even get help from a local club to build the boiler. It must be horrendously expensive to buy a professional boiler. You only need a propane burner, a mallet and a bucket of acid solution.

I have had more than my fair share of fun trying to build a simple, small boiler for Rob Roy but I could never claim to have built a steam locomotive without building the boiler - it doesn't feel right somehow. And.... even though I have had fun, I would echo what Julian has said regarding the time required. I built my effort, including the flanged plates and formers in two weeks. My problem is that I built it to an out of date set of drawings.

Phil H

I applaud your enthusiasm Phil but realistically an "effort" as you called it with the wrong set of drawings isnt going to get past my Boiler Inspectors at Chelmsford.

Bob

I posted earlier but it seems to be missing - Tim called me earlier to say boiler is tested and ready. His problems seem to have been order overload and, perhaps, optimism. The only drawing issue we have had related to understanding the drawing and we got there in the end but he said 'Locomotion' was a difficult boiler (first time for Tim) even though it is low pressure - 60psi working.

Well done Phil glad youre sorted

Bob

That's really strange Robert because two different boiler inspectors from two different clubs were very willing to give it a try. There are a couple of issues that I believe can be easily rectified and neither would be a problem if I had used up to date methods. I guess Im a lot better than I thought hey??

Certainly looks that way Phil Good luck

Bob

The snag appears to be the quality of the drawings and the drawing modification process. My boiler was built to a 1980s - ish set of drawings and the available book at the time. Unfortunately, it is now 2017 and my boiler has sat in storage. Even if you pick up a brand new set of drawings, they are still questionable - so care is needed before you start.

However, my point is that if you make sure the design is up to date - or modified accordingly - the process isn't that daunting and the response that I have had from clubs is very positive i.e., if you ask them to help, I am sure they would.

Phil H

Indeed Phil you are quite right we have several accomplished boiler makers within the club who are always willing to advise and help if asked and maybe next time i will try that route.However on this occasion having already placed an order with another supplier i will wait patiently till it arrives.

Bob

Hi all,

Just thought I would update you as far as my situation is concerned with CVS.

I have sent a copy of my termination letter and request for a deposit refund on each Monday during June, headed "Polite reminder no 1,2,3,etc." This being a copy of the letter originally sent by recorded delivery received and signed for at the CVS address.

Response has been a total zero from CVS.

I can only conclude from this that the man has either lost the plot totally or is prepared to display a total disregard for his customer, downright arrogance and complete ignorance.

I really believed that our hobby was devoid of such companies, clearly my costly mistake.

Bob