Apprentice Piece - Turning

Seem to remember a key ring fob was the first thing I did at school - marking out filing, sawing and a hole for the ring. Next was an ash tray can't imagine that on the corriculum now

I'm surprised no one has asked whether the Myford meets all the current safety requirements as you should be teaching safe practice from the start.

J

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Project could be to cut up the Myford and use the bits to make 8 Super Adepts. - Neil would like that.

Nick

Hi Joshua,

I think regardless of whether they are a child or a fully grown adult will be beside the point. They must be all taught to embrace the principles of metalworking in the same way, as you cannot assume one mans knowledge to be equal of the next. And as much respect i have for arts as a prior student myself, i would be lying if i told you this adequately prepared you for the basis of metalworking.

You cannot have self directed study without expecting a few knocks and chips on your tools, and maybe even a disaster if a workpiece or key is thrown out at high speed.

You've already said how disastrous it was taking on too many people, it could be the same result with even 40, you need classes of 12 people maximum.

I can't see how this setup would work without expecting them to be already competent in lathe work, as a kind of members commune, whilst i have admiration for your endeavor, it might be wise to scale down the size of this ambition to manageable numbers of people.

Michael W

Maybe I was taught the hand fitting aspect the hard way. Large piece of steel that it took 3 months 8 hours a day to turn into a rather smaller perfect cube, squared up and blued on all sides. End result reasonably capable of using a file. Then a thick square within a square followed by some complex template fitting work. Later on advanced bench and yet more file work. I suspect it's only possible to give pointers about aspects of file work that can make it easier to do. There was also some sheet metal work that involved filing to height gauge scribed lines leaving slight signs of the line. Might be easier. Sheet metal work to circa a thou. For an entire 3 draw toolbox.

One thing I made at school early on which involved turning and hand work that could be done on a mill was a draw filing clamp for thin work. The screws were cross drilled and fitted with a bit of rod for tightening. It and some other bits and pieces were in the boot of my car and was nicked. The screwdriver I made during training too. Hollow handle, turned bored and knurled on a lathe. Square shaft with forged hardened blade ebd and the end turned down to fit the handle which was notched on the mill to suit the blade's square section and prevent it from rotating, A thing of the past for when slotted screws were used a lot on tooling. The square part of the blade could be driven with a spanner but the whole thing then really needs heat treatment.

The other thing I made at school was this style of gate latch along with the catch plate for the other side of the gate. Riviting, forging and none critical file work plus oil blacking. Several afternoon sessions. It outlasted several gates and was still in use 40 odd years later.

Made from 1/8" thick steel all nicely chamfered and the pivot block filed and sawn out. My dad was really pleased with it.

I junior school I made my mum and embroidered clothes peg bag.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 13/10/2016 14:51:38

So far the only thing I've made that's really impressed my family was a tool to remove pins from a metal-link wrist-watch strap.

Whilst they were bewailing the need to take a new watch to a jeweller I slipped out to my lathe and turned a simple 1mm ø punch on a length of 6mm diameter silver steel. After a few minutes whirring in the garage I returned and fixed the strap.

What hit the spot was me being able to solve a problem they understood by making something practical. Until then they thought I was mad to own a lathe because most stuff they want can be bought on ebay.

For a moment my workshop interests became almost respectable. It didn't last...

Dave

I was thinking along the line that schools are no longer what they were. Also from talking to a colleague at work wondering if they still teach horticulture instead in Devon. As a result he was having nightmares concerning servicing his car to reduce costs. Even concerned about using a spanner.

John

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I'm still struggling with who these people are that you are proposing to train. Are they budding model engineers who want to join a club and make a live steam model? Or are they people who want to re-train as machinists? Why do they need to learn how to use a lathe and milling machine? Are they motivated, or are they doing this because someone has said they must? Is this taking place in a school or college where there are decent facilities such as benches and white-boards?

You say you want to restrict the time to 2 hours for everyone's sanity - I would think that such a time limit would have exactly the opposite effect. You are not addressing the many practical problems that will arise from this - while one of the group is getting 1:1 attention, what are the other 6-9 people in the group doing? If the instructor is demonstrating how to operate the lathe how many of the group are going to be able to actually see what he is doing, while they are all gathered round this tiny little lathe? How many of them will be able to read the drawing of the plumb-Bob /screwdriver /machinist jack with their art /craft/ electronics background? How many will even know what 0.05 of a mm is, let alone use a micrometer? What's the plan when a student drives the tool post into the chuck and takes your lathe out of commission?

If you've already experienced problems with knowledge retention, wait until you've tried e-learning - it is extremely difficult to design an e-learning package that works successfully, particularly for practical subjects where you really need to be standing in front of a bench or a machine for the lesson to have any relevance.

Meanwhile, in the real world, I too made a screwdriver as my first machining project at school, similar to the previous poster, but with a hexagonal duralumin handle and the blade from 5/16" silver steel which we hardened and tempered. I remember it well, partly because the teacher was actually my father (much as I hated going to the school he taught at, thankfully he was respected by the kids as a good teacher). It took us half a term, or seven weeks, which equates to 14 hours. There were 15 in the class, and the workshop had five lathes and two brazing torch stations, and of course we all had an individual bench space with a vice and hand tools. I can't think of a simpler first project that encompasses the range of skills you mention and fulfills the requirement to produce something useful, and it took seven times longer than the time you are proposing.

I suspect it may be a man shed Steve. They are slowly cropping up all over the place. It's just a pity that schools don't teach craft skills any more which will make things more difficult for many people. Some areas of the country never have.

Craft skills these days is usually pottery.

John

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Engineering skills at home and the ability to make things is not the sole domain of the model engineer others out there would also like theses skills for there hobbies just look at the non loco subjects on this site.

I think we should trust Joshua to know his own requirement, and not put him off him with high-end negatives. He's not setting up an Apprentice Training Scheme!

The more people who get to see what a lathe can do through his good offices the better. Two hours with a good instructor should be sufficient to get a good feel for the tool.

After that it's a whole new ball game. People can take it up or not as they please.

I think quite a few Model Engineers are self-taught. Not the best way to learn I think, but I'm enjoying it.

Dave

Cheaper to make the piece whatever it is out of plastic, also safer for the tools.
Would any of these people use a 'whatever tool' that has been suggested?

Equally pointless but easy is a 'phone touchpad stylus' as fancy as you like out of plastic, thick enough to be bored out and fit a commercial tube cap. Those who have no earthly use for it can give it to a child, grandchild, as a 'look what grandpa made you'.

Will the course include training on Linuxcnc Axis

I'm not sure where people get the idea of of 'groups'. To me it reads as though a number of different volunteers want to give the same 1:1 training to about 40 people.

Two hours should be Ok if they are bright and interested.

Neil

It could be that the groups would be quicker to get through whereas 4 or 5 people delivering 1to1s might make a bit of a waiting list. Say they did 1 a week, with 5 volunteers giving 1to1s the last guys got a 2 month wait.

This sounds quite popular if 40 is a pretty small taking for them, on the other hand it could be considered quite reasonable if that was the maximum. So long as they could occupy "the last guy" with other stuff to learn in that time frame it would be alright. This all depends on how literally taken the 1to1 approach is of course. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 13/10/2016 20:08:50

Maybe they got that idea from the OP's two posts. If he had said from the outset that he was going to teach one bloke at a time he might have got some different answers. He may also have got some different answers if he had said it was all informal - a mate teaching a mate - rather than mentioning things like e-learning, inductees and classroom sessions, which gives the impression of an altogether more formal setting. I asked the question earlier whether they would have one lathe each, which sort of alludes to whether the proposal was for a group or individual teaching but it wasn't addressed.

I'm pretty sure that I could show one person how to use my lathe fairly safely in two hours. I'm equally sure that they will not have produced much of any value in that time.

This is beginning to sound like another M8 thread.

Personally I feel it pays to assume some intelligence from OP's and that they do have an inkling about what they are doing. There is no point in making judgements on 40 lathes forty people all in one go or anything like that. The OP will probably just disappear.

All he wanted was ideas about what such people could make in a short period of time.

If he wants to teach 40 people in one go on a lathe which by modern standards is unsafe that's his problem not ours. They aren't anyway. It's also highly unlikely that he would even contemplate 40 anyway. After all if he is one of the teachers it stands a fair chance that he will have some idea of what he is about.

Time spent and waiting time - no doubt that will have already figured in his thoughts.

John

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What happened to the metalwork & eng. drawing classes at schools ? . All the workshop equipt. sold and only now is it realised that that the previous classes were needed. How to solder a resistor or glue a piece of wood/plastic is no basis for basic engineering appreciation/skills. How did we allow this change to take place ? There should have been a major protest from Engrg co.s.

Edited By Dinosaur Engineer on 14/10/2016 03:29:14

Sadly the needs of employers drive what courses are available these days, the needs of hobbyists, makers, DIYers and the curious are not a 'priority' or target.

Neil

The Myford as standard has no chuck guard or leadscrew cover, not just electrically. Your Warco is equiped with both of these items.