Kittiwake Major - A Bit of a Mystery!

The link I gave above to the Kittiwake article is on the ModelEngineer website but came up as the result of a Google Search. I know Tubal Cain's Sally build is also on there but there is no link that I can find from here. What else is lurking in this hidden corner?

Ian,

As far as I can make out, ETW was a very talented practical engineer but he worked closely with both Col. Bowden and Prof. Chaddock. In order to design cams properly you need to have a good understanding of the resultant valve displacement and acceleration and I think, in the days before digital computers, ETW got Chaddock to do his difficult sums.

Cheers,

Rod

Yes it would be nice to know what else is in there Rod, I think a lot was put on in David Clarke's time.

Neil, assuming you have access can an index be provided or just a list of documents?

Here is the original blueprint:

The plans are definitely marked Kittiwake Major:

But I was wrong about the year, my conspiracy theory crumbles! It's 1939:

And the castings themselves:

I think they may be ally, they are light, but not super-light and don't look black at all. There's no corrosion where they have been in contact with other metals either which apparently is worse with magnesium. They may have been fettled as one inside surface shows signs of sandcasting where it was a little short of metal.

The rocker cover was anodised by my benefactor, apparently some 50 years ago! It's a bit scratched but the upper surface is still bright. Might be teh best way to fish the model, if I can get a good enough finish.

Screws holding the crankcase together (brass) were not seized and came out easily. I used some Lidl rust-dissolver spray and the lovely castellated nuts at each end of the crank came free.after about ten minutes with modest effort. The crank came out of the bearings with a gentle tap from a nylon faced hammer.

Inside the crankcase is clean, despite being partly open to the elements. The central portion of the crank is sound though I may need to skim the big end, or rather polish it. It's in Evaporust now, and I expect to get a wholly usable part as it runs in bearings. I expect the 1:10 taper to be fine as it is very fine rust, although all over, presumably it's a good hi tensile steel that resists rust.

The cylinder liner looks great on the top half - still shiny! - but the bottom is corroded more, not sure if it will be possible to rescue it by honing until evaporust does its work. I think the piston rings could compensate for 2-3 thou of honing, if not there is a cast iron blank for another cylinder liner.

@ Ian - which page of the book are you looking at, I can't find the cam in it.

@Jason/Rod - There's no index to those articles that I can find, although I think Google can sometimes find them, but changing 1 to 2 in the URL works:

Kittiwake Part 1

Kittiwake Part 2

Uploading PDFs is a nightmare, you have to memorise the name of the file and edit into the name of another one, I haven't been abl;e to find any way of listing what is on the server.

There are some worthwhile download under Features - article reprints and features- magazine reprints on the green bar at the top of the page.

Neil

<edit - oops forgot the pictures!>

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 18:44:35

The bearings - two sets of ball races, 0.500 x01.125 x 0.250". One with 16 crowded balls, and two opposed insertion notches - you don't see that often these days. Marked "Hoffman Made 5.5 " on the outer race and "c.o. 5.5" on the inner

The other has 11 balls in a brass or bronze cage of riveted construction. "KL 2" on the outer and "KL 14P2" on the inner.

The back one had plenty of clearance to get it out with a bit of 15mm copper pipe and the little nylon hammer.

The front one was at the back of a hole just clearance for the crankshaft (to stop oil leaks). I had to use the shank of an old 13mm drill which just tapped into the hole and then forced the bearing out.

The accuracy of the light press fits of the bearings on crankshaft and in the crankcase suggest the work was done by someone who really knew their stuff.

I don't suppose Ketan lists these under the old numbers, but a pair of R8s should be fine (at least one has to be open as the oil passes through it to get back to the pump, but maybe a R8RS at the front and slightly open up that clearance hole in case it has to come out again.

Neil

Does look like all aluminium, by way of comparrison these are the Magnesium crankcase and aluminium carb castings from a similar vintage Stuart Lightweight, you can see the much blacker magnesium.

You will have to get a boating pool put in at MEX then we can try my 30cc lightweight up against your 30cc Kittihawk

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If some kindly Adminstrator was persuaded to change the permissions on this directory, we could browse the contents.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 19:28:47

Even this moderator gets told he does not have permission to look at the directory when he tries

Edited By JasonB on 23/05/2016 19:30:37

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I guessed as much ... It's a job for a system administrator, not a Moderator

MichaelG.

It's passed through my mind to use it to power the Super Adept, but over a horsepower might be a bit much!

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 20:40:38

I doubt that can be done as I am 99% sure there are documents in there that we are not free to share.

Neil

I thought you would be using the Adept as the anchor

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Fair enough ... It was worth a try

Such decisions [apparently expedient at the time] often come back to bite us.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 21:02:29

There are also failed versions in there - if you upload a corrected version of a file you seem to have to use a new filename. To be honest, the whole system is full of things like the preview pages for each issue of MEW and there doesn't appear to be a way to remove them.

Ho hum!

Neil

Hi Neil,
I did not realise there would be so much interest in this engine. Seeing yor pictures of the parts layed out I now remember making the rocker shaft I think when I was in my late teens or early twenties.I dont think it is finished. My father did all the rest of the work on the engine before I was born or old enough to remember.

Les.

Oh well, pity about the articles.

Back to the engine though, it's a very interesting project and working to a genuine blueprint is seriously cool

I think getting the surface finish back is going to be difficult since the aluminium oxide that has formed is going to be considerably harder than the base metal. I'd do all the required machining and think about the surface when the engine is running.

I acquired a set of Kestrel castings from Eric but I'm quite scared of starting on these since replacements are not available

Good luck, when I'm back home from Yorkshire I'll have a look at the Kittihawk in vols 91/92

Rod

Although the corrosion that forms on aluminium is hard, it is generally not attached all that well to the parent metal so it will usually clean up OK. I once had an old (prewar) BSA crankcase bead blasted to clean it up after it had spent time under a hedge. The part that had been in contact with the ground had actually wasted away by up to a 1/16 or so, but looked reasonably acceptable after bead blasting.

I still haven't opened the right box to find the 1944 issue, but don't worry, the process is doing the state of my collection a lot of good. Instead of being in boxes, the bulk of it is now in its cupboards. This frees up floor space, making it easier to open other boxes....

regards

John

The other option on th external surfaces is to paint them if the alloy won't clean up to a bright finish, If you have a look through the Tether boats, cars and engines album on the other MEM flickr account you will see some that are painted, certainly a couple of fully painted water cooled ones there and a lot of black aircooled cylinder fins.

The rocker bracket would look best left bright, if that won't clean up well you could cut a new one from solid as that seems quite corroded.

J

PS I think they have a wrong description against their Kitty Hawk or is it yet another version?

PPS If you wantto waste a few hours have a look at the rest of the collections

Hi Les, you'll be pleased to know the rocker shaft has come up really nicely and so has the crank.. I think the Evaporust is near the end of its life so things are going slowly, but the liner looks like honing might rescue it, but yes that 'big lump' will provide a new liner if required.

John, thanks for your patience, but it's a an awful lot to copy. For reference (not to make you get them!) the issues for Kittiwake appear to be:

2275, 2279, 2281, 2283, 2285, 2287, 2289, 2291, 2293, 2295, 2297, 2329

I think this is too much to expect you to copy them all, I think I have all key details in the book 'Model Petrol Engines'. I would be particularly interested in the issue 2295 article though, as the Oil Pump looks like it need a fair bit of care (and some more explanation of the valve arrangement) and it could be a good place to start.

Neil

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Neil,

May I return to the matter of the BluePrint ?

I think this is, in itself, an important historical document

... What do you intend to do with it ?

My suggestion would be to dismantle it into convenient pieces; then scan all the pieces and reconstruct digitally [subject to no objection from Kennion's, this could and should be shared with the world]

... Then [with the information safely captured], physically reconstruct the artefact as an 'exhibit'.

MichaelG.

Michael surely if it is an important document the last thing to do is pull it apart to make it fit an A4 scanner. Far better to get it scanned on a large format machine then if you wish to divide it up that can be done digitally which would allow pages to be placed to suit teh part not where a fold comes across a part.

I would also be wary of displaying it as an exhibit as some of teh old reproduction processes can fade in daylight.

But agree it would be good to share the drawing as it could always be made from solid or homecast