which lathe

Yep same page as I looked at 3hp on the 3 phase and just under 600kg short or 700kg long bed

John looks like they only now sell on ebay with at least 12% slapped on or direct.
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Man enough to power most workshops just plug in tools hardwired around the shop, no need to unplug like some.

Did have the 4KW it lasted 1hr 25mins good bye £600 5 1/2 years ago. Have a mate the powers a square top Student and a Bridgeport 2J off the 7.5KW inverter exactly the same through the control board, switches relays etc at 400V powering the 2.25kw lathe motor and coolant pump as intended which means no faffing about rewiring the trips back to a VFD.
What annoys me is I paid £900 for the 7.5kw 49 months ago, outraged when on ebay at £1350 now £1850 + post.
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My M300 is an ex GKN painted with a trowel twice, its the performance I need for the biz not looks, Mine is an early one est 1970-72 it has the 2.25kw motor and similar weight to Harrison 140 at 680kg including fibreglass and aluminium castings.
Last lathe Harrison 140 flat top one of the few 1ph 240V made that had a 1 1/2hp motor and believe me I could put a cut on 3 times that of the M300. At the time went to buy a Craftsman and felt it wont last a year thoug belt drive and quiet. I then turned to the CUB not in stock 7 months wait then to the Crusader again not in stock 7 months, glad I didn't as neither would have surpassed 1 1/2 years use due to wear. The Harrison 140 seen better days and still lasted 9 1/2 years with serious abuse ie 3/8" to 1/2" cuts on power feed barely making a murmer and loved that clutch.
New M300 I would be weiry find a pre Chinese made or part made one unless cheap from sometime in the later 80's.

The beauty of the newer Harrisons M300 upwards and Colchesters Student and above is the no pain way of selecting a thread size whether imperial or metric, just dial it in no faffing about with change wheels like every Chinese to date I regularly have to thread 0.75, 1mm and 20TPI on the same shaft. To change it literally is 15 seconds whatever the thread.

Parts are available for the 600Group machines but are costly, same said of the cheap Chinese ie brand new complete mill £930 to replace powered head gears on base of motor £244. Same said of the RF25 motors new machine £650 at the time, new replacement motor £256. Usually parts not available measured in months and they will break regularly.

Highest quality lathes are the DSG and Smart and Brown, only ever seen one come in for a regrind 22 years ago, they last due to better manufacturing, steels used throughout and finer grinding meaning more surface and contact area less wear. Seen plenty of Chinese I could file better with a second cut, no pun.

LOL so I rounded one way and you another, Anyway the point I was making is that they aren't that heavy a lathe.

Quick look. Nearest Chinese - Warco GH1322 / 30. 500 and 600kg and that would be higher at 1m between centres. Some where or the other there probably will be a "version" with 1m between centres.

In this area I also feel that people should realise that there are lots of makes of lathe and in real terms it's state of wear that is far more important. The odd thing is often these lathes don'r attract a high price. As an extreme example I came across some one who had found a long bed Kerry in excellent condition. If I had the space and wanted a lathe of that size and found one similar I would buy it like a shot.

It really is best to look at any lathe that is of the right size rather than stick to names and go look at it and try it.

Just have to add that I wasn't too concerned about my boxford in some respects as apart from the style of headstock bearings it has all of the design feature that precision lathes have long been know to need to have. Just enough of them - barely but sufficient. It's still easy to buy one well past it's sell by date.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 11/04/2016 16:11:15

Edited By Ajohnw on 11/04/2016 16:14:54

Condition is everything. When I was working in a contract toolroom we ran Colchester Triumph 2000 machines. These where replaced every 5 years and believe me they where really worn out. 60 to 80 hours a week of hard work took its toll.

I don't think people realise the differences between a good example of a new machine and what happens as they wear Chris. I have only been near factory toolrooms but often work will be directed to a specific machine, lathe or mill because it is less worn than others and produces more accurate work. Generally if real accuracy is needed stuff finishes up on a grinder of some sort. Often it's going to be hardened anyway so who cares. Once a lathe or mill wont meet what that needs out it goes. Sometimes there will be a little used machine about, especially a lathe. Once it wont produce an excellent and accurate result it will get moved down the line to jobs that don't need it.

I have seen a college that trains people dispose of a lathe. They set the lot up and watched carefully. The one that went was the one that showed the most faults that were not down to the user. Even when they have to go due to wear a lot of people might be surprised how good they are. The problem for them is or maybe was that people were going to get x/10 marks for the work they did on them.

I've looked at a couple of ex school lathes recently. Damage of one sort or another and hardly any bits with them at all. They probably kept the bits for the next one.

I must cure myself of lathe lust so in some ways it great that something about them puts me off. 2nd lathes are different. I always tell my self that if it doesn't do what I want to do sell it and costs will be low. Sort of loan shop. I suspect my mini lathe will go that way as something more suitable for what I really need from it will turn up. It has actually.

John

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Thought all the school lathes had been sold off by mid 90's, prior to that bargains ie flat top Students went for £400 lucky if can get one now for £4k, £2k 5 years ago.
Fairly sure paid £400 for my ML7 in 92, rebuilt 4 times in six years had to have bigger, step in the 140 what used to take no joke 4 1/2hrs with modded ML7 took literally 20mins.

That said M300 very similar paid £850 5 1/2 years ago off a mate that was going to resell upwards of £1600. Sold Dickson toolpost for £110 out of that. Paid £900 a bit steep for my ex 140 10 yrs earlier in 2000 when couldn't get a Chinese Crusader or CUB within 7 months thank fully, lovely work horse for 10 yrs no regrets. Chinese would have been equivalent toast within 18 months.
Currently theres a trader with a least 10 M300 that each have done serious work for £4k each. Funny thing is the interest is on the one that has a fresh rear cover, no tool post, chuck or anything, people judging cosmetically rather than performance!
Just have to be in right place at the right time.

Motor on mine non dual voltage 380/440v 3ph with the smaller 24mm shaft and case 90, makes it harder to find a decent motor standards 100. Could get it rewired around same price as a new quality motor but three days downtime

Jon, It sounds like you use your machines more/harder than the average hobbyist. I do a fair amount of work on the bikes now that I am retired. But actual spindle running time is most likely 4 or 5 hours a week on the lathe and similar on the Bridgeport mill. Add to that the sorting out and set up time plus assembly of parts I am doing around three days a week. My machinery should see my days out.

Personally I think there is a lot of miss comparison in this area, not comparing like with like. If for instance some one wants a lathe that has been built to the din toolroom spec there are chinese ones available. There are normal spec lathes available too in all sorts of sizes. There is no point in reading across results from the hobby and light usage range. The only problem from a home user is that in general they will probably be larger and of course more expensive. They will usually have been sized to suite what industry generally buys for specific purposes.

Nothing to do with me but one company that does offer a complete range is Excel Machine Tools. If people look through them they will quickly realise that many of them wouldn't exactly be at home in a shed. The toolroom spec one is rather large. I visited them once and there were several smaller lathes to the same sort of spec on their way out of the door. Student size. None now that I am aware of so would guess not enough were sold.

John

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Any toolroom worth its salt would have had DSG or Smart and Brown for precision work, Harrisons or Colchesters normally used to bang a product out for good reason, they last.

The DIN 8606 as over hyped is just the bare minimum requirement, many English quality lathes way exceed that.
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Assuming these din spec lathes leave within tolerance it wont be long before that goes out the window. What you have to remember far better castings, steels used throughout, far better grinding not hard to beat and general overall build far superior. All amounts to longetivity.

Last place worked had a new geared head Excel, rarely used unless had to and only very light diy work.
Better man than me or anyone that used the thing if you can find another speed to engage within 1/2hr, no joke. Thread cutting chart, whoa in chinglish plus faff about with the changewheels. Apart from motor needing push start you could actually see the wear in several places, bare in mind was only used for menial work once a week for 15 mins.
All the ones in current catalogue are available from many other places, order 10 you can have your colour and name on them.

Hi there anybody have a manual on the ntl400p lathe

The D&T dept where my mate works started buying decent Lathes about 15 years ago. They have a student and four M300's, one of which is a long bed. I've used a couple of them myself and the long bed M300 is my favourite. The last one they bought was a brand new M300 about 4 years ago. It was apparently made in Poland and is painted white rather than grey. They have lost some of the more capable staff there though so there is talk that they might get rid of them. Someone will get a bargain if that happens.