Wabeco D4000-getting a lathe upstairs and first impressions.

the above makes sad reading indeed. I would have expected something better coming from Germany,but then,perhaps it only passed through Germany on its way to you. Who knows where it was made. For that kind of money,I would expect something better,a lot better. My Chinese lathe [Craftsman ] cost a lot less and while it is not tool room quality,it does not have an Ali or Lead bedway. Although the quality of the cast iron is not top class,it is hardened and has never marked or dented. I find the cast iron is somewhat sandy compared to other old cast iron items I have. There are a few rough issues,but nothing major considering the price,the only fault I find with it is that it could do with a much bigger and better top slide. I think it,s a bit light.

I know we are not talking like-for-like,but neither cost-for-cost and while I often thought about upgrading to a better EU made machine,this gives me food for thought. I agree that sellers/suppliers often seem to know very little about the stuff they sell,and in some cases,care less. To end up with something like that is a sickening experience but at least you were able to get rid of it. Perhaps I was lucky in that my machine seems to be able to cope with all I throw at it,and that,s some !

I would like to see how much a good quality Chinese lathe would cost compared to an EU model. I,m sure they make them.

Anyone else got views on this subject ?

Some of the Hardinge clones from the far east are supposed to be quite good but at a price

Edited By JasonB on 10/09/2017 13:12:49

Before some one jumps down my neck,let me say that I did not look at the date of that thread [seems I was not the only one ]

I simply commented on the issue

I am the one guilty for restarting the discussion, so if anyones neck should be jumped, it is mine!

But I felt the the topic was still interesting, even if the original post was almost two years old.

I have been struggeling with my D4000 for some years, and it is very interesting to hear from other D4000 users.

Some of the problems I have encountered ar definitively due to my lack of machining skills, others might be connected to problems with the machine.

To hear about the problems people have had with these relatively expensive machines came as quite a shock. Fortunately, my bed does not seem to suffer from problems with its hardness.

I would love to hear from people that are happy with their Wabecos.

It would also be interesting to hear suggestions for improving the performance of the D4000. For instance, I think that redesigning the crosslide or even replacing it might be a good idea.

I am also considering an "emergency fix" that avoids using the compund slide altoghether and replace it with a solid toolpostt in combination with a micrometer stop. Like described here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfcU_cWs1Dg&t=479s

Regards,

Havard H

Quite hard to find such lathes advertised with prices, but have a look at Buck and Hickman. The rule of thumb that you should expect to pay 5 to 10 times the price of a hobby machine seems reasonable. Perhaps someone who has used a high-end Far Eastern machine could comment on what you get for the money. My guess is that they're rated for continuous work in a factory and have lots of tasty productivity gizmos like clutches, gearboxes and coolant systems etc.

Can't comment on Wabeco quality but it could be that the lathes are expensive because the purchase price has to cover Western labour costs.

Dave

It would be interesting to here from anyone else that has purchased a Wabeco D4000 lathe in recent times & their views & experience with their particular machine. At the same time if anyone that had been considering getting a Wabeco D4000 lathe that have been put off by the experience of owners on this thread.

Good question. I have always understood that these are good quality machines.

Neil

Neil that is what I thought, that is why I bought one, to say this was the biggest disappointment of my life is an understatement. I will now probably now go with something like the Warco 180 or the Toolco 1014 with the brushless motor.

I was very close to buying their mill but this thread really changed my mind

As the Bard said "What,s in a name?"

I have had my Webeco D4000 lathe since January this year and overall I am pleased with it but must admit it has a few failings.

A year previously I had bought a Wabeco F1200 Milling Machine. It is a well made, capable machine with just a couple of minor niggles. Within its limitations it works well and I enjoy using it. When I was at the Pro Machine Tools showroom I looked at the D4000 lathe and also the Proxxon PD400. The Wabeco certainly looked the more robust and I subsequently bought it influenced by my experiences with the Wabeco Mill.

I had a good opportunity to examine the lathe internally because my machine shop is indoors in a spare room and I had to dismantle the lathe to lighten it as much as possible to get it upstairs. The general quality of fit and finish is good and there are some innovative design features. However there were manufacturing faults and some aspects of the design are poor.

I first noticed that the top surface of the top-slide was not flat (i.e. where a toolpost sits). In fact it looked like the surface of the casting had been smoothed with a belt sander! The fault was rectified by Wabeco but it required the whole top-slide assembly to be returned to the factory, which then took three weeks to "repair" and return it to me, with no attempt at any apology. The top surface is now flat, nicely surface-ground and accurately parallel to the base of the moving slide. Sadly though, it is not parallel with the cross-slide surface because the two sides of the fixed slides on which the top-slide moves are of slightly differing heights. I reported this to Bryan of Pro Machine Tools but didn't press for action since I didn't want to be without the top-slide assembly for another three weeks - I was eager to start using the lathe! Not ideal but I can live with a small slope on the toolpost.

I am sure the slackness of the cross-slide feed is another manufacturing quality issue. There was about 0.25mm of free play from new - in a 1mm pitch leadscrew! The use of a 1mm pitch screw in a lathe this size seems odd, my little Cowells has 1mm pitch feedscrews.

Other poor aspects of the design are the imbalance of the tailstock, the gearing of the saddle handwheel feels too fast, and the cross-slide is too short such that after only 15mm of travel the end of the slides become exposed to swarf.

I haven't had the opportunity to use the lathe a great deal yet and not done any heavy machining or parting, so can't comment on the rigidity. Everything I have made has turned smoothly and had a good finish. I would imagine the main source of flexibility is be the rather insubstantial round support under the top-slide. A solid toolpost mounted on the cross-slide would no doubt help.

There is no sign of softness in the bed. There are no visible marks on the slides as yet.

The lathe makes some noise but I don't find it unreasonably noisy at high speed and have not experienced undue vibration, but then my lathe bench is very rigid.

There was a 16 week lead time when I ordered my D4000 so presumably demand is high. There seem to be few on the second-hand market, so presumably the majority of owners are satisfied with their purchase?

I am sure over time I will do some modifications to improve my lathe but to be honest, I am a little disappointed.

I hope these notes help anyone considering a Wabeco machine.

David

I also found quite severe flexing when drilling with the tailstock, I had to go up in drill sizes in very small increments & I mean small. If I went from say a 6mm up to an 8mm drill the tailstock/drill would noticeably flex whilst the drill would start screeching & flexing as soon as the drill started to cut. Just like you would get from a blunt or chipped drill, these were not blunt drills as I have been a metal worker sharpening drills for more than 50 years. Just out of interest I also tried this with some brand new Dormer drills with the same effect, also out of interest I had a piece of bar between centres with a clock gauge on the bar at the tailstock end of the bar & literally with 1 finger very lightly ( & I mean lightly) putting pressure on the side of the tailstock. The gauge would move 4 to 5 thou, I also found that if I had a piece of stock in the chuck with a centre in it & then undone the tailstock & slid the tailstock away & then slid it back again with the centre back in the stock. The tailstock had gone back not on centre, on inspection of the V cut in the base of the tailstock it appeared to have a bow in the V allowing the tailstock to rock before the clamp was done up.

Seeing as it has been nearly 3 years since the start of this thread & over 1 rear since the last posting, has anyone else in this time bought a Wabeco D4000 lathe. If they have did they have any of the experiences that the posters in this thread had with there particular Wabeco D4000 lathes, good or bad ?

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