Neil Wyatt | 31/10/2014 17:55:25 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | This is chapter and verse: 5.2 Preparation and Inspection Neil |
Andrew Johnston | 01/11/2014 10:37:04 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | It may be chapter and verse, but possibly from the wrong songsheet. The quotation above relates to the preparation and cleaning of gauge blocks for comparative calibration using an electro-mechanical comparator with LVDTs. In the comparison process individual gauge blocks are compared with a block of known length. Wringing is not mentioned, or used in the comparison process. Appendix B in the link given makes for interesting reading. The tentative conclusion is the wringing force is due to a liquid layer. And the thickness of this layer is accounted for in the calibration of the block. Regards, Andrew LVDT = linear variable differential transformer - a pretty nifty linear displacement sensor capable of resolving down to nanometres, although I used them on the more prosaic task of measuring suspension ride height on racing cars. |
Bodgit Fixit and Run | 01/11/2014 12:29:27 |
91 forum posts 2 photos | I was always taught that they should not be oiled but used dry. The holding force is due to the very fine finish which is why wringing works. Oil will give a false reading and if I remember correctly from my apprenticeship a thin film of oil can take the equivalent of 40 tons per square inch to squeeze out. They will hold together with oil because of the viscous effect and tackiness of the oil but won't give a true reading. |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 13:03:58 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Andrew Johnston on 01/11/2014 10:37:04:
Appendix B in the link given makes for interesting reading. |
Neil Wyatt | 01/11/2014 13:30:51 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | Various sources suggest that sets should include pads, one for oiling for storage, and one for celaning off teh oil prior to use. It's interesting that rubbing on a stone followed by a check on an optical flat is the approved way of reconditioning burred blocks! Neil |
Rik Shaw | 01/11/2014 13:39:08 |
![]() 1494 forum posts 403 photos | Two slips wrung together WITHOUT oil give this result:
Wrung together with oil give this result: The difference is there as can be seen - with oil we get +.00025" approx. I repeated this five times and got similar results each time. Rik |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 14:21:42 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Trouble is, Rik ... the Dial Test Indicator is not really a suitable tool for checking the thickness of Slips; so I'm not sure what your results actually demonstrate. MichaelG. Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/11/2014 14:23:27 |
Phil H 1 | 01/11/2014 14:52:35 |
128 forum posts 46 photos | Posted by Bodgit Fixit and Run on 01/11/2014 12:29:27:
I was always taught that they should not be oiled but used dry. The holding force is due to the very fine finish which is why wringing works. Oil will give a false reading and if I remember correctly from my apprenticeship a thin film of oil can take the equivalent of 40 tons per square inch to squeeze out. They will hold together with oil because of the viscous effect and tackiness of the oil but won't give a true reading. Totally agree with this. My teacher at school, lecturers at college (practical ), lecturers at college (theoretical ), apprentice instructors, chaps from the toolroom and guys from the inspection departments at work all said the same i.e., wring them dry. Interesting if they were all wrong. PhilH
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Mark C | 01/11/2014 15:01:53 |
707 forum posts 1 photos | Andrew, Did you know there are (and have been for a while, just not often mentioned) analogue output inductive sensors? They are more robust than LVDT's although they don't have the same resolution (as an aside, the resolution you mention is probably the sensor you used rather than the LVDT as they have infinite resolution only limited by the signal to noise ratio in the system/amplifier etc). They also do not have the same stroke range (measuring distance) as some long stroke LVDT sensors and they require a metallic target. Mark Edited By Mark C on 01/11/2014 15:03:33 |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 15:02:05 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Phil H 1 on 01/11/2014 14:52:35: ... Totally agree with this. My teacher at school, lecturers at college (practical ), lecturers at college (theoretical ), apprentice instructors, chaps from the toolroom and guys from the inspection departments at work all said the same i.e., wring them dry. Interesting if they were all wrong. . Not for the first time on this forum: I think we have more than one interpretation of apparently "obvious" descriptive terms [in this instance, those terms are "dry" and "oil film"]. Careful reading of Appendix B in the NIST document [referenced above] should clarify the matter. ... it's only a couple of pages; unless you follow all the references MichaelG |
michael cole | 01/11/2014 15:21:20 |
166 forum posts | Yes, what may appear to be dry to us, would indeed have a very thin oil film. Mike C |
Rik Shaw | 01/11/2014 15:31:36 |
![]() 1494 forum posts 403 photos | Michael - If this method of measuring is good enough for the inspection department at Cincinnati Milacron machine tools then its good enough for me! As for what the results demonstrate, I would have thought that was perfectly obvious. Rik |
Gordon W | 01/11/2014 15:33:47 |
2011 forum posts | I was taught that gauge blocks wrung together by air pressure, always believed that. No doubt someone will know better. |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 15:41:18 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Rik Shaw on 01/11/2014 15:31:36:
As for what the results demonstrate, I would have thought that was perfectly obvious. Rik . Rik, Based on your pictures, I presume that you have measured the thickness of your applied oil film. With the greatest respect: I can see no evidence that you have measured the thickness of the slips. Please ... before replying, read Appendix B of the NIST document, and note my point about the differing interpetations of apparently simple terms. MichaelG. |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 15:44:21 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Gordon W on 01/11/2014 15:33:47:
I was taught that gauge blocks wrung together by air pressure, always believed that. No doubt someone will know better. . Gordon, At the risk of labouring this discussion ... NIST knows better, and has kindly given us Appendix B of the document referenced above. MichaelG. |
Phil H 1 | 01/11/2014 16:04:49 |
128 forum posts 46 photos | Yep read appendix B. Im still happy with the term dry as described by my teachers!! Appendix B appears to be talking about a surface that most definitely looks and feels dry in practice. PhilH |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 16:12:47 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Phil H 1 on 01/11/2014 16:04:49:
Yep read appendix B. Im still happy with the term dry as described by my teachers!! Appendix B appears to be talking about a surface that most definitely looks and feels dry in practice. . Exactly my point Perhaps we could put it to bed now. MichaelG. |
Rik Shaw | 01/11/2014 17:48:59 |
![]() 1494 forum posts 403 photos | Michael - I tried to put it to bed but it's not completely exhausted. "With the greatest respect: I can see no evidence that you have measured the thickness of the slips." The object of the photographic exercise was to demonstrate the thickness of the oil film using the DTI as a comparator. The thickness of the two slips is merely an irrelevance as the same two slips were used for the checks. "Please ... before replying, read Appendix B of the NIST document............" Why? Rik |
jason udall | 01/11/2014 18:38:51 |
2032 forum posts 41 photos | An article I read from the 40's indicated that slips wrung and stayed wrung if placed in a vacuum. ... ..so it was not understood why ( blocks wring) then and I guess the airpressure thing was killed off .. Me..my guess would be more to do with either micro surface texture ..nano structure like gecko's feet.. or something to do with "quantum" effects maybe free electron migration....mmm . wonder if glass ( or other insulating material) slips would wring? |
Michael Gilligan | 01/11/2014 18:40:32 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Rik Shaw on 01/11/2014 17:48:59:
Michael - "Please ... before replying, read Appendix B of the NIST document............" Why? Rik . Because it will describe what is meant, in the context of slip gauges, by an oil film. [the thickness of your applied oil layer is, by comparision, like the cheese in a sandwich ... or whatever alternative takes your fancy] MichaelG. Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/11/2014 18:45:58 |
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