Member postings for mechman48

Hi Stuart

I bought my WM250V-F at the Harrogate exhib' last year in a package deal along with a WM16 mill & stands, I recieved it in Aug as I was converting my garage so asked Warco to delay delivery until notified. I have only just started to make swarf in anger this year & have just 95% completed a rear toolpost to suit. It has handled what I threw at it re. machining CI, MS & Brass, using 3 & 4 jaw chucks so am more than satisfied with it's performance. The mill is the same quality, handling all materials with ease,I am in the process of fitting DRO's to the mill at the mo', just fitted the Y axis today & will be fitting the X axis in due course.

The only gripe of real note is that the stands are rather flimsy to prevent total absence of vibration although ea.sturdy enough to support weight of machine, so in retrospect I would have gone with making a solid wooden or heavy angle iron framed bench for ea. machine. I sent the first lathe stand back as on one side the foot did not align up with the top & so would not sit level on the floor,as said they were included in package deal so everything matches up so to speak. another note, the drive belt is very thin.. 1/4" wide, so I bought a stand by from Warco after sales..a bit pricey if you ask me! but at least I will have a spare should anything untoward happen.

I have a set of ER 25 collets too but you will need to get a MT4 collet chuck to fit 'up the spout' as that is the taper size on the headstock, these are obtainable from all the UK ME suppliers at reasonable cost although I bought mine direct from a Hong Kong co at a much better price,inc postage. All in all both are capable machines so far, as long as you don't try riving off huge amounts in one pass, Harrisons & Bridgeports they are not!. As the sayings go,..'you gets what you pay for'.. 'don't expect a rolls for mini price', in they end they will do what you want them to do as long as you take care.

Cheers

George

Well, Well! seems as though I have answered my own question, seems the old grey matter hasn't given up the logical process just yet then .

Cheers

George

Jason

Fantastic build. As an aside can you, or other members, tell / clarify how you set out a thread as you have, with paragraphs & pics interspersed with decriptions in between. I am assuming that you are writing text then inserting photo from album via the camera icon in the reply box, I'll give it a try with this post & see if it pans out.

Rear toolpost project fitted & given a trial run.

I can agree with Bill Dawes; every machine has it's limitations,I had one for some years on a solid wooden bench in my garage & the lathe handled some hefty cutting..with care!. the milling aspect left me frustrated as you have to remove the chuck & fit some sort of raising block to limit the quill extension otherwise you get a noticeable vibration problem, (mind you I bought mine back in the 90's so was one of the earlier models & being on contract work most of my career it was rarely put to constant use).It was a pita to change speeds though changing belts and /or fitting the intermediate pulley to suit cutter dia.& material. otherwise a solid hunk of iron.

George

David

Thanks for the efforts you have put into the MEW, wish you all the best in your new endeavours. Welcome Diane, wishing you the best in your new role.

George

Tried to download; running Vista...'CRASHED MY PC' !!! B****CKS, ..will keep my Newnes Engineers pocket book, Presto drilling & tapping ref book, MEW drill & tap ref.charts (early years)..

George

Steve,

As you said right 'ol can o' worms this has turned out to be innit! still every one has their own opinions, & that's as it should be, giving rise to healthy 'debate' isn't a bad thing. I bought my machines as they were the right price with a decent deal 'on the day' & I can concur with a lot of what all the members have said, although in places the thread has I would say 'digressed to a certain degree'.

Phil A.. As with you I have bolted my mill to the wall which does stiffen it a lot more, & it is more convenient than floor fixing & the same with the MT 2 capabilities between mill & lathe, in hindsight I would have foregone the stand & had a much more substantial bench constructed I only tighten the draw bar 'hand tight' &, as you say, backing the draw bar up against the collar does 'self eject' the taper, mind you everyones 'hand tight' is different I can imagine someone who is built like a brick sh*** house can apply more leverage than I can so would probably need some 'extra' persuasion. I can only add that on a couple of rare occasions I have had to 'gently persuade' the draw bar with a brass hammer.

Refering back to tooling (TerryD & others) I too have bought a set of ER25 collets, from a Co. in Hong Kong, originally with a MT3 holder for my original machine which was a combi machine a C 500 (again Chinese) & I can't complain of the quality as supplied, again to the unitiated I have honestly only used 2 or 3 collets so far, 5,12,16mm but as I bought the full set of 16 I'm sure I'll use the rest eventually..at least I have them. Since getting my 'toys' I went back to the same Co. to buy a MT2 & 4 holders to suit the mill, & the lathe headstock,again at a very reasonable price. I can concur with others & do ensure that you get a decent 'milling' vice & not a 'drilling' vice there's no comparison, I got my 4" vice from Arc Euro (as with a lot of my stuff), who do supply decent equipment I must add (usual disclaimer.. thanks Ketan).

Regards

George

Steve

'One company I spoke to disputes the thinking that these machines are made by a couple of factories in China, if they were then there would be less differences in wattage motors for example from one make/model to another. Also other related parts may well not fit what appears to be a 'twin' machine'

I can only offer my opinion, take a look for yourself at :

www.realbull-machine.com/en/

www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Sieg/Sieg.htm

On the Seig site, quote.. "This is the factory that makes many of the versions of the mini-lathe, mini-mill and many other machine tools that so many of us enjoy using."

Take a good look through & you will see many versions of what we ME guys buy; have also taken a comment from the mini-lathe forum site ..

Mini-Lathe Product & Book Reviews.

‘The great majority of mini-lathes sold in the U.S. and worldwide are made by Sieg in Shanghai, China. They are re-branded by several vendors, painted in a variety of colors and sold with various combinations of accessories and with four bed lengths: 8", 12", 14" and 16", but all are basically the same lathe (Well, ok, the Micro-Mark version is kinda unique...). A very similar lathe, made by Real Bull in China, makes up the rest of the market’.

By reference to the above the following are made by the same co.

Lathes:

Big Dog 7x14

Grizzly 7x12

Harbor Freight 7x10

Homier 7x12 (old style)

Homier 7x12 (new style)

Homier 7x12 (comparison)

Micro-Mark 7x16 with brushless DC motor

Sieg SC2 7x12 Lathe with brushless DC motor

Sieg SC4 8x17 Lathe with brushless DC motor

Sieg C6 10x22 Lathe

So in the same context I can dispute the dealers comments, again only offering my opinion, make of it what you will, at the end of the day you will purchase whatever make, size etc, you decide suits your needs & budget. Happy hunting & enjoy what you get.

Cheers

George

I have a Warco WM 16 bought at last years Harrogate exhibition, together with the WM 250 V-F lathe as a package deal after I had trawled around the other major suppliers. The cabinets/stands are very flimsy for what they are expected to support (inc as part of the deal) so I would ensure that a solid bench/frame is a better preference. I did have some issues with the first lathe which was remedied by a simple tel. call so the support from Warco was very satisfactory in that respect.

The mill is virtually the same as the Amadeal 16V & other clones from china albeit in a different colour & they are all made by a couple of factories in Southern China just badged as different manufacturers/models ( in the US it is badged as the Grizzly G0704 / BF20L). the price you pay depends on the distributor & what he decides is a profitable mark up taking into account shipping & overheads etc, (as with all businesses) so it comes back to the old adages ..'you get what you pay for' ... 'don't expect a Rolls for mini price' I would have prefered the WM 18 but this was another £350 which was really stretching my budget at the time.

Saying that I am getting good results so far from my mill after tweaking it here & there (& 'straight out of the box', I have given it a d.o.c. of 1-1.5 mm on cast iron, up to 1mm d.o.c. in mild steel with a 4 point face mill & similar with 4 flute HSS end mills so I have not asked it to do too much, so far, so good. At the end of the day, as you correctly surmise ..'what is my budget, what available space do I have, what do I want to do with it 'etc, etc. .. & don't forget about the cost of tooling either, e.g. rotary table,parallels, cutters, etc, can tot up to as much as the cost of the mill if not more over time. There are a couple of pics of my machines in 'my album' if you want to have a gander.

Happy hunting.

George

Got one for crimbo; nice little unit & cheap at the price ..inc postage

George

Hi Exmoor

Jeff Dayman & JasonB have just about covered all the requirements for building up your workshop; I have a Warco WM250V-F (with power x feed) lathe & the WM 16 mill, both bought at last years Harrogate exhibition. I had a very good look at Chesters, Amadeal, Arceuro to compare prices & 'package deal' offers & Warcos came up with the best deal (stands included) so I parted with my cash.

As far as support goes I can only give you my experience..Warco initially sent me the wrong machine, a standard 250 as opposed to the V-F, a telephone call to them soon remedied the mistake & I had my V-F within the week ,delivery costs taken care of, on checking the second machine I found that the saddle was severely binding along the bed at three points, poor casting manufacture & finish, the stand was of a quality that a first year fabrication apprentice could have done better,again a phone call, plus e-mail with photos had another machine & stand on its way, all this with profuse apologies & delivery costs taken care of. This machine has proven satisfactory to date & apart from a clean up of the travel grease etc I've had it working ..'straight out of the box' .. & apart from blowing a fuse ..my fault, I was testing how much a cut I could take off.. it has handled what I've thrown at it (not literally !!). I can concur with Jeffs comment on checking the drive belt though, it is only 1/4 " wide..so bought another .. 'just in case', & not cheap, any how ref back to the support point, Warco were very apologetic & immediately acted on the issues mentioned so I can't complain. I did mention during the phone calls that a better quality control & inspection system at point of manufacture would have prevented a lot of issues & I was assured that this has been taken on board.

The mill was ok from day one, again 'straight out of the box' & a general clean up soon had it running, a bit of a rattle coming from the head but I put that down to the plastic intermediate gears (seems to be a common denominator with most of these Chinese machines). I did check the bearings via the old mechanics trick of listening with a screwdriver as a stethoscope on both top & bottom bearing housings & did not detect any overloud rumbles or clicks so have left it at that. It also has coped with what I have asked it to do, including intermittant cutting on cast iron (bloody awful stuff to clean up!) & so far is coping with DOC of up to 1mm with a face mill & more with a HSS 4 flute end mill on cutting MS T bolt..so I can't complain. All in all both machines are doing what they are given quite satisfactorily,& accurately, & as we all know 'you don't get a Rolls for mini prices'

As far as tooling goes I have over the past I have bought a 4" tilting rot' table, a set of ER 25 collets & MT2 & 3 holders, various milling cutters,drills, mini chucks, keyless chucks,etc,etc, from the usual suppliers.. Arc Euro,Chronos, CTC (Hong Kong) ..usual discalimers, & flea bay, did actually manage to get a carbide 12mm ripping cutter for .50 pence, & 8 & 10 mm carbide end mills for a £ 1 ea. on fleabay..mind you postage was £3.40ea. from China..hmm! wonder who came out the winner there ?

So Exmoor, there you have my experience of setting up shop; NB; set yourself a budget, decide what you want to do, get the largest you can afford & have space for, & bear in mind the old adage ..'what you spend on machines you'll spend as much if not more on tooling ' in one form or another. I have a couple of photos of my machines in my album should you /anyone wish to have a look

Cheers & happy hunting.

George.

Hi David

Appreciate the work & effort you have put into this mag; best of luck in you new endeavours & I am sure that Diane will maintain the quality in her new role as editor.

George

On a similar tack I have posted a write up in the thread .. 'Workshop heating' .. describing my attempts to insulate & heat my garage conversion which so far have proved most satisfactory.. but there is always room for improvement!

Cheers & happy new year to all.

George

Hi all,

I have a converted garage, 8' x 17', I have had it studded out & insulated it with 25mm Celotex panels(similar to 'kingspan' then overlayed with 12mm OSB all round apart from the up & over door,which I have attached space blanket roof insulation (temp' measure for now). the loft space has been boarded over & layered with spare space blanket, which puffs up to 6" thick when unrolled.

I have since bought two small thermostatically controlled oil filled radiators from my local Supermarked (£19.95 ea) & have one at ea. end of the garage so when I go in I switch them on for about an hour, at present temperatures, & it soon gets nice & cosy. The temp' at present is a comfortable 8-10 deg' without the radiators on but I usually put them on & get it up to about 14 - 16 deg' C then switch them off.

During the cold spell last year when it reached -2/4 deg. outside the insulation still maintained a reasonable +6-8 deg. inside so a quickie couple of hrs with rads on & I was in comfy mode & so far there were/are no signs of condensation on any of my machines. I am looking at attaching more Celotex panels to my up & over door later on this year as it will look cosmetically better & will give the equivalent insulation rating as the space blanket.

There is a photo in my album showing the insulation being fitted during conversion stage if you wish to look. Happy new year & regards to all.

George.

Hi Folks

I also got a piece of polished black granite from a worktop manufacturers (sink cutout) 20" x18" x 1" free gratis.. ran my digital DTI over it & like Andyf it showed maximum deviation at one corner of half a thou'.. I aint arguing over that, more than good enough for model engineering needs.

Merry Xmas folks

George.

Hi Richard,

I have a Warco WM 250 V-F that was bought at the Harrogate exhib' together with a WM 16 mill, I have only just started using both in anger & so far both have done what I have asked of them.I have the metric versions and am in the process of making a rear toolpost from a kit..measurements in imperial :0 so have to do simple conversions. If you go down the Chinese route check what the dials tell you as mine are marked off in 0.02mm increments (digitally checked) but take off .04mm off the diameter but it states that on the dial.. i.e. // = (dia sign) .04mm (If you get my drift), I have been taking off 0.020"-030" cuts (1/2mm + = to 1mm off dia.) at 600 rpm with coarsest feed rate as set up at manufacturers & motor didn't show any signs of undue labouring..so in essence it's a sturdy machine that suit's my needs for now. Have a merry Xmas folks. George

Hi Chris J

I also have a Warco lathe..WM250-VF, would also like to see pics if anyone has fitted DRO to similar lathe, what DRO system do you have?

George

I have insulated my garage conversion (attached, single block, with roller door) with celotex aluminium backed sheeting on all walls followed by 12mm OSB, the ceiling is plasterboarded & 6" `space blanket ` .loft insulation on top of that.During the recent freezing snap it has kept the temp` around 8 - 10 deg C when the outside was down to - 2,

I have now added two electric oil filled radiators bought from my local supermarket at a cost of £19.90 ea, one placed at ea. end of the garage (17ft long), I switch them on approx 1 hr before I intend going in there & boy do they work! its usually up to approx` 18 - 20 deg.. very cosy.. when I get in. The good thing about these are that they are thermostatically controlled(as most are) so switch off when desired temp is reached, or I turn them down to suit.

I have used space heaters during my working life & although good for localised heating they will make you drowsy(CO) which is not good when you are working on machinery, therefore you will need a free flow of fresh air, or at least decent ventilation, so in some respects conversely defeats the object? so this method really needs consideration.. plus the cost of propane/diesel.

Hi Dave

PS, has the latest 'gift offer' changed from digi calipers to the digi angle gauge as shown? this would be of better benefit to myself.

As with DMB's comment, I like the toolrest too & would like to know where you got it from.

Regards

George

I have just renewed my subscription on line via e-mail reminder; does the present 'free gift' offer of digital vernier calipers also apply to my renewal or or is it only for new subscribers?

Regards

George