Member postings for Jon Cameron

Hi Brian, I've heard of stories of men having to swindle the system to be able to buy a lathe and other tools after the war time years. There was little resources and the idea of buying a lathe for pleasure, instead of using it to get Britain back on its feet, well...... Its does make me smile of Curly tucked away in a bunker machining away on his little lathe. Bits of scrap, that he turned into loco's, and even simple toys for the young enthusiast. Then retiring to the house to respond to letters and write articles for ME.

His garden railway was very nearly blown to bits at one point, been adjacent to a main line. I'll leave it there as its slightly off topic for this thread, but always amuses me.

Hi Brian, I must admit that having the centre section machined would be advantageous for setting up tooling such as a fixed steady, it would have also eliminated the cost of having the adaptor plate made for the alomco milling attachment. hey ho.

Perhaps the centre section was machined at a later date, or requested when your father bought the lathe from myford.

The steady you describe is what I have with the three fingers around the bore, with the top piece pivoted so it can be opened to retrieve the work piece. I have some of the steel mentioned earlier so if I can get the drawing finished and ledgible, (i'm no draftsman, but try my best), I will make a start on welding the bits together to build up the base, and pivot. Having a think on machining it last night. it will all be able to be machined on the faceplate, utilising an angle plate or packed up on the cross slide for drilling the hole in the base, (a little less precarious), with less overhang from the faceplate.

Jon

opps that posted twice?

Edited By Jon Cameron on 05/05/2020 08:34:50

Hi,

Im in awe, that's some very fine filing? on the hands, the biro is good for scale.

Can I ask what the fourth tailstock attachment is used for in the 1st pic of the toolmakers draws, is that for a drilling pad or something completely different.

Jon

hi and welcome,

I'd be interested in seeing the watchmaking, machining small scale has always facinated me.

Howard the original fixed steady for the ML1,2,3&4, has a flat soleplate, and a 1/8" plate, to a 3/8" BSF bolt which pulled the steady into the ways. It should be possible to build one up (although not as ornate) from 20x100mm plate, around 150mm off, some 5 or 6mm x 40mm plate, around and some 1/2" steel round. Either bolted or preferably welded before been machined down. The ML10 and M-type lathe both utilised the dovetail ways to locate onto the bed.

Luke is the second person now owning an ML4 that wishes to have a fixed steady, so would be practical for me to measure and do a set of drawings so they could be used to fabricated up.

Luke, the first reply I posted detailed the bed. Mine measured 25mm between the ways and is raw cast. 75mm over the bed ways.

Hello,

2nd attempt at a.(shortened) reply, Luke, I'll get measuring the steady and sharpen my pencil. It should be possible to build it up and machine it back from bar stock.

I actually came across this thread by accident, though glad I did as hopefully I can repay some of the help I recieved when I started with mine.

I never did make an adaptor.for the spindle nose as been a poorper machinist the cost of buying new 3 and 4jaw chucks, and faceplate ect. Wasn't viable at the time, however as tooling increases the more I have bought that needs the 1.1/8" thread. The lathe came with plenty of tooling already threaded 7/8" 9TPI so I have kept it as it was.

There is a lot of issues that has prompted my lathe been pulled apart, the main one was the motor running hot. There was a knocking from the layshaft, (not a myford one), on stripping down the motor pulley has never been keyed and had come loose on the shaft, also the bearings for the layshaft (they look like brass) have worn oval so combined it was making a heck of a racket. Theres a few other issues that I'll be sorting out. Plus now i have garage instead of the 6x4' shed. So there was another reason to strip it down, I have room to do bigger projects.

If I can be of any assistance just ask.

Interesting thread.

I also have an ML4 currently stripped down for painting and to remedy a few issues that where bothering me.

Brian has been a great help to me when I first got the lathe, to get it up and running.

On the note of the fixed steady, the ML7 one wont fit the ML4 without modification to the lugs at the bottom, I have an Alomco milling attachment and my friend milled me an adaptor plate to allow fitment to the ML4, as unfortunately the ML4 gap between the ways is a little narrower. I have one of the original fixed and travelling steadies, these are currently stripped, for again refurb, I have offered to make drawings for another person on a facebook group and quite happy to share these here. Although it will be built up using steel plate, welded then machined. Unless someone fancies making pattern and casting them, It wont be as graceful as the cast original but will be up to the job in hand, if not more ridged been of solid steel construction. The original had a flat base with a 3/8" BSW threaded plate, which is rounded 1/2" radius (I think) on opposing corners to help it locate under the bed and lock the steady to the bed. Four "fingers" are then mounted on swivelling retainers that are fully adjustable around the bore. The top half been hindged so that work can easily be lifted clear of the steady, without disturbing the steadies position.

If you are interested I can make the drawings available once they are done.

Jon

I recently came across an article in an older ME, whereby a hob blank was first drilled and reamed 1/2" and indexed at four point on a PCD. A mandrel was made this been eccentric to the spindle. A pin was then used on the same PCD as the blank was drilled. screwed onto the mandrel and the mandrel mounted in the lathe it was possible to back off the teeth by simply turning all four index points to the same setting (OD) on the eccentric mandrel. Then the hob was machined as you describe above to depth, cutting the teeth, and advancing the saddle by the required pitch. for each tooth. When mounted in the mill on another 1/2" mandrel, this time concentric with the spindle, the hob would cut the tooth, and the pressure angle of the next tooth and the last tooth. When indexed to the next position, the hob would cut the second tooth, and the pressure angle of 1st tooth just cut, as well as the pressure angle of the 3rd tooth. So three cuts per tooth to be able to fully form the correct profile.

If I can find the article ill post it, it was a pleasant read, and certainly simplified the actual cutting of the gears, without having to raise or lower the cutter position for the secondary cut, as this was all taken care of.

Thank you Michael, Ill see if they are still distributing, if not I have a while to go yet so can buy when its time to paint. Good prep as always seems to be the key to success.

Jon

Hello,

What is the best Black paint to use on a firebox and smokebox, I have a 2" Durham that is slowly progressing, and I want to paint the smokebox before attaching to the boiler. Other VHT blacks i've used, just seem to go grey or loose their shine, which is not that I want. I would prefer not to use two pack paint. So any other suggestions are welcome.

Cheers Jon

Speaking as a relatively newbie, the things i've found most needed are as follows.

Micrometer (digital preferred so you can switch between metric and imperial)

DTI and magnetic stand

Verniers for rough checking (a cheap Lidl set will do)

Dead centre, Half centre, and live centre

HSS tool set, usually around x8 tools, this gets you used to the shape of the tools and their uses,

A bench grinder and oil stone, to grind the set above and hone them, later to go onto freehand grinding your own tools.

Drill set 1-10mm or imperial equivelant to get you started making holes in things, larger holes can be bored to size.

ME taps and dies and correct tapping drills of a size needed for a project, along with holders. I started with Whitworth which was a mistake on my part.

Four Jaw chuck is very helpful!! if a little fustrating to use at first. It does click rather quickly.

Imperial to metric conversion chart, (helps get your head around both sizes)

Slip gauge set to adjust the centre height of your tool, once the pip is gone your there.

As for projects, a tailstock die holder is a very useful tool, which will find use quite often.

To start out, practice turning a piece of bar to a set diameter. The more swarf you make the more you learn until eventually it clicks what you need to do. removing half the required amount of material. This also gets you used to turning and what your machine tells you as it machines. Vary the depth of cut when the lathe sounds like its groaning, back off. Look at the finish your getting, HSS tools vary greatly on how they cut and they perform different. Deeper cuts make for quite a lot of spring on material if its unsupported. So a final pass on the material at the same setting can relieve that spring for a parallel bar.

Importantly as mentioned already, think ahead at what you want to build, list the tools required to build it and aquire just those tools per project, quite a lot of the time very clean fully equipped home workshops see little use, The messy ones are where a lot of things seem to get built.

Lastly remember to stay safe at all times, safety specs on as soon as you enter the workshop, roll those sleeves up, it will become habbit, make a hook for your chuck key, if its not there don't start your lathe!

The funniest bit about the article is the missus (who is a nurse) took him to the hospital where she works, so her colleges could also laugh at her astrophysicst boyfriend.

Intelligence is not a sign of common sense!

Hi Howard,

My ML4 has a 7/8" 9TPI thread whether this was original or a replacement from another lathe I'm not sure. I have read Tony's website and know what the changes are from my understanding though the four types were released together and then the optional extras, nose threads, developed over time, in response to customers wants and desires. The tailstock been the classic example. Where enough complaints were noted on the crudeness for the slide over tailstock for repeatability that myford offered the much improved version. But at a greater cost which was almost the same as the basic lathe with no upgrades.

Interesting, so is there no number under the saddle or tailstock either. A photo of yours with a brief description of tapers in the spindle, whether it has holes drilled for gaurds, tumble reverse, or even a raised section for the tumble reverse to mount to would be interesting to know. There is a whisper that some lathes were assembled after the war for those with the right contacts, yours may be one of these lathes if certain features are present on it. Which could explain the lack of numbers.

I've pondered this before, but since there isn't any serial number history of the older myford lathes. ML1, ML2, ML3, & ML4, has anyone put together a list of serial numbers?
I'd be happy to take the lead on recording this info if those with a lathe above could provide their serial number, and possibly a photo of the lathe too. If you know a date of your lathe please provide that also. Ie my grandfather/dad bought it new 19##.
Usually stamped on the front of the bed under the chuck. But can also be found under saddle, and tailstock. Ps I'll be posting this around a few places to gather the info so apologies if you see it more than once.

Julian,

Many thanks for your response, it wasn't planned as been detailed or to quote you, so appolagies if I've caused annoyance or offence. I simply wanted to try make a bullet point list for assembly of soldering.

After acquiring a scrap boiler for nothing that even after my inexperienced view is shoddy and dangerous, it's been lopped apart with an angle grinder and the front tubeplate cut off, and the barrel at the throat plate cut, which has left me with a nice section of 13SWG copper that is quite possibly going to get hammered soon. It's also left me with dozen 3/8" tubes, at around 7" length. So after a clean up an flattening, (flattering...dammit autocorrect, as if you could flatter a peice of copper that causes you so much frustration haha), I'll have a tube plate, and backhead that's 13SWG, and tubes which makes the cost of the boiler quite small by comparison.

After your response I have clear in my head which steps to take going forward, hopefully as does PKG should he attempt a third try at the boiler, or at least try to chase the leaks to satisfaction.

I do testament to another thread and this one where light weight insulation blocks from builders merchant, reflect heat a a fraction of the cost of commercial thermalite blocks. I soldered a thin gauge brass boiler (of mamod proportions) with plumbers flux and solder, using a small hand held torch filled with lighter gas. The solder ran beautifully after the tube was well packed around with offcuts of the blocks something that I thought would be impossible.

Again thanks for your contributions hopefully I may make a boiler in 1 attempt but then again pigs might fly.

Julian, id like some clarification on a post on the previous page you say that you solder the foundation ring to the thoat plate first. I assume that this is before soldering the throat plate to the main barrel, or at the same time as soldering the barrel and throat plate? I guess it would serve a couple of useful points in that you will have a spacer to clamp to when you come to solder the inner Firebox, to the barrel and wrapper assembly. Also while soldering the barrel and throat plate first, the front part of the foundation ring would get pre warmed, meaning that a blast of the flame should see this heat through and the solder melt and flow.

So order of assembly would be (HT=High temp solder, LT=lower temp solder) numbered steps are cook ups, possibly could reduce these but where?

1.barrel and front throat plate, then onto the foundation ring front part. (HT)

2. Then outer firebox wrapper to barrel. (HT)

3. Inner Firebox wrapper to front firebox tubeplate (HT)

4 crown stays to firebox (HT)

5, tubes to front firebox tubeplate, rings of solder, use smokebox tubeplate to align tubes. (LT)

6. Inner assembly and outer riveted together clamping to front foundation ring, (foundation ring drilled and tapped for copper/bronze slot head screws?) and riveting the crown stays to The wrapper. (LT)

7. Front tube plate, and around tubes (LT)

8. Inner Firebox firedoor ring (HT)

9. Inner Firebox to rear Firebox wrapper (LT)

10. Foundation ring sides (LT)

11. Backhead bushes (LT)

12. Backhead, and rear foundation ring. (LT)

Just realised I missed the steam take off block from that assembly should be same time as step 2, screwed from below and then drilled though after cook up.

I have just read this thread through from start to finish, (works been quiet today).

My thanks to PKG for posting all his failed attempts as well as his triumphs, I believe there's much more to be learned from those mistakes. As for his posting earlier as to someone else been able to learn something, you have certainly succeeded on that count.

Having got the book (quite cheap compared to some copies I've seen), ive been reading through the pages and searching websites on builds. This is by far the most helpful I've read, thanks also to those that have offered advice along the way. I will post progress of my build when it begins.