Toby - a beginners loco

I recently came across Toby which would seem to be an ideal beginners loco that appears to be not only be much easier to build than Tich or even Northumbrian, but also probably able to offer better performance than either of those due to the high adhesive weight resulting from 1/4" plate frames and solid "tanks".

Toby is 2 1/2" gauge. However as there are no 2 1/2" gauge tracks within easy access to my location, a 3 1/2" gauge engine would be a more practical proposition.

Here are some photos of a few Tobies , and part one of the construction series (only part one is available online).

As Toby is already a similar size to TIch (it actually uses Tich wheel castings), I was wondering how practical it would be to build Toby as a 3 1/2" gauge loco by simply widening the frame stretchers and axles. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Clive

Don't see why the widening would not work fine Clive. Wider frames would allow a wider firebox as well, if desired. Might want to widen the tanks a bit each side as well. The extra water will further help adhesion. Looks like a nice simple locomotive. If castings are not in the budget for wheels, plain ones from cast iron bar would be easy and cheap, and could be drilled in the LBSC contractor Tich style in lieu of spoke cutting, in interest of getting through the build and to the track faster.

Good luck, JD

Clive, the set of articles for Toby are now archived on a DVD available from :-

http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/DVD.html

Hope this is useful,

John

Jeff, Thanks for the advice, I am giving serious consideration to giving it a try.

John, thanks for the DVD link, I hadn't noticed it and was wondering where to get the rest of the articles. I have now ordered it, but waiting for a DVD in the mail now seems almost archaic in these days of the instant download

Clive;

Possibly points of interest - I made a Tich as my first project. I'd tend to agree with the solid tanks; I have a tank on my riding car that is piped into the axle pump at the bottom (suction) fitting.

Mine I made with slip eccentric valve gear.

By the way, on flattish track a Tich will haul 2 easily. It has made it around the Waushakum Live Steamers track, but by the end of each circuit, it needed the fire dropped and cleaned - it is one heck of a track! (google it, and watch some of the youtube videos of the club's elevated track)

One year in Winnipeg, my little Tich hauled me and another genteman, probably in excess of 450 lbs in people, around their long but flat track.

Lots of power in little locomotives, so no matter what you build, have fun with it.

Another JohnS.

Hi Clive

i have also built tich (with help from my dad! he wanted full walsharts valve gear on it), during the construction (when i was struggling) i wanted something easier to get me running fast, So i chose TOBY but my local club had only got a 31/2" track so i made it all to the dimensions, but slightly wider to suit the 3 1/2" gauge.

very easy, although with having tich and now dad on board we got tich running!, so TOBY never got past the rolling chassis stage, Shame really

I thought it would be better to have a more powerful loco to partner tich so now i have a rolling chassis for a sweet pea and now on the cylinders

I went to a 2 1/2 gauge rally and i was surprised how well and fast those things belt round at!!

Here is an image of what it would have looked like just by adding a front wheel, still with the solid tanks but with a slight indent to give the idea of coal on the top

it might get finished one day !! another one in the queue !!

hope this helps

Nigel

just thought you will get a lot of help and advice from the 2.5 gauge forum on yahoo groups

might be worth a look 

Nigel

Edited By Nigel Hyde on 01/02/2013 20:41:51

Edited By Nigel Hyde on 01/02/2013 20:56:56

Edited By Nigel Hyde on 01/02/2013 20:59:16

I'm sure I've asked this before but I'm darned if Google can find the answer for me!

Another John how much does your 3 1/2" tich weigh and does anyone know how much a Toby weighs?

I'm interested to compare with my diesel shunter which weighs at 23lbs and had a job to start two adults (for about 26 stone) and a heavy driving car (say another 4 stone).

It has steel tyres,and I noticed that after the run there was a black substance on the tyres rather like burnt rubber.

Neil

Hmm - I used to say "about 20 pounds". It flies as cabin baggage, so it's not too big nor heavy. Yes, Tich's wheels slip, but the thing just keeps going, usually! Sometimes a hand on the cab helps.

Our local club has an elevated track issue; some posts are lifting, so very short sections are very steep. Tich can not make it up these steep sections; but my 3-1/2" gauge 2-8-2 has trouble staying on the track over the "transitions". Maybe after repairs this coming summer.

Another JohnS.

JohnS, Thanks for the Tich vote of confidence, but despite the bad rap that Tich seems to receive in some circles I already had Tich on the short-list.

Nigel, Thanks that is inspiring it is a shame though that you haven't finished it, but I can see the appeal of a sweet pea especially if you want to do some passenger hauling.

A little background: Having acquired a Unimat Basic lathe (4" swing, 8" between centres) with vertical attachment, I decided that I would like to build a 5" gauge loco. After weighing up the various beginner friendly 5" gauge designs I chose the Don Young Railmotor.
Armed with years of armchair experience (a long time ME reader) and a set of plans from Reeves I confidently set out on this new challenge. A few sessions in the workshop was a humbling experience. I soon realised that a Unimat is not a Myford and that there is a world of difference between reading knowledge and practical experience. So scaling back my ambitions somewhat I successfully built a little Elmer's oscillating engine, a few simple lathe accessories, and made a start on a Stuart 10V.

Turning the 3" diameter Stuart flywheel taught me that the limitations of a small lathe are not just physical capacity. Even within its capacity, operations that may be relatively easy on a larger machine, can be far more difficult or extremely time consuming. It took two evenings of fiddling with the 4 jaw chuck,then the 3 jaw chuck and eventually the faceplate with custom clamps before I managed to find a way of holding the flywheel securely. Once that was done the next unexpected hurdle was that limited cross-slide movement made it impossible to reach the rim of the flywheel with a standard tool. It took another few hours of fiddling before I succeeded with a boring bar held in the reversed toolpost, and then another evening's turning to complete the flywheel taking very shallow cuts. By the time it was finished almost a week had elapsed. Taking this long to make one item may be an adventure the first time, but trying to make a complete loco is sure to become an exercise in frustration.

So once again reality set in and I realised that for any chance of success I would be restricted to a small 3.5" gauge loco such as Tich or Northumbrian. The latter was soon dismissed, although it would seem to be the easier build, the driving wheels diameters are close to the limit for my lathe and by all accounts it would be hard pressed to even haul it's driver once finished.

So I was all set to embark on a Tich when I found Toby. Toby looks to me as if it should be a much easier build, especially with the marine type boiler, but with no accessible 2.5" gauge track, a 2.5" gauge engine is a non-starter.
So my choice comes down to either a Tich or a Toby widened to 3.5". My concern is, whether a 3.5" Toby is going to be a practical proposition bearing in mind that any major redesigning would be beyond me and that I am hoping to only widen the frame stretchers and axles.
Thanks,
Clive

Clive,

Why not enlarge Toby by multiplying averything by 1.4? If it's ametric design most sizes should come out pretty much as nominal?

You may need someone to approve the enlarged boiler design.

Neil

What are your concerns Clive? as said before the widening looks like it would work fine, without changing anything to do with design, boiler etc. The tractive effort / performance of the locomotive will be exactly the same as the narrower version, if you change only the width and gauge. Toby has been demonstrated to be a capable loco, so what do you fear would make it not a "practical proposition"?

Are you looking for opinions from those who have built and run a Toby? Some opinions from such folk about their findings vs your expectations or how you plan to run it would have value.

JD

Toby or not Toby? That is the question.

Neil

"to suffer the Singapore slings and disc harrows of outrageous farm boards"

Or something similar, could be the next line as I recall, here in Canada....

maybe Knott

(sorry - don't want to derail the thread)

But parting is such sweet sorrow. I'm sure that's been used a few times on here. Sorry.

Jeff,

Actually your previous post, and Nigel's follow up addressed most of my concerns. So now I am all set to get started on a widened Toby . Nevertheless I would still be keen to hear from anyone else who may have gone down this route.

Clive

And now also the answer

Edited By clivel on 04/02/2013 03:06:52

Start with Juliet on slip eccentrics...easy to make and looks good! I made my boiler start to finish over one weekend.

By all accounts aluminium rail is slippy relative to good old rusty steel. Never run on it myself. Also wear profile of rail will affect contact and traction.

I bought the CD or DVD not sure which is which these days and was dissapointed that there are no words and music for Toby or any of the other models on the disc ... no great problem as I have the Sweet Pea book to guide me but a beginner really needs the W&M.... the dimensions are in thous's so my calculator is busy giving me a metric answer

Increasing the gauge to 3.5" gives a bit more room to work. so mine will not be a Toby True and I also don't see the point of a trailing bogie to guide the drivers into curves, unless going in reverse so aim to add a front bogie as Nigel pictured for us.

All the text that went with the Toby article is on the disc, or al least it is on mine.

John