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Gardner hot tube gas engine

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RICHARD GREEN 218/12/2010 17:37:28
329 forum posts
193 photos
Anyone making one, or even just interested, take a look at my photos.
The engine is not finished yet, but some interesting machining photos.
 
                                                           Richard.
Ian S C19/12/2010 00:13:48
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
Good photos Richard, and nice work.  What is bore and stroke of  the motor?  Just a wee hint, May be a 6" rule or similar in one or two photos near the beginning of the album.
                                                                       Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 19/12/2010 00:15:45

JasonB19/12/2010 08:03:05
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Thats comming along nicely.
 
Bore is 1 3/8 x 2" stroke, 9 1/2" Flywheel
 
Jason
Ramon Wilson19/12/2010 10:58:47
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1655 forum posts
617 photos
Nice set of pics Richard and some interesting set ups. Far to big for me but I do envy the versatility of your Elliot. Will this be a 'true' hot tube ignition system? I look forward to seeing more on it's build and eventual running.
 
Regards - Ramon
Ian S C19/12/2010 11:06:21
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7468 forum posts
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    That sounds a good size. the open crank engine I'm slowly getting together is based on one featuredin volume one of ME (1898), 2" bore, 3.5" stroke, just got some cast iron for the piston, must get on with it again.  I'v made the flywheel out of steel, its 14"dia and 30mm across the rim, its made the same way I make the smaller flywheels for my hot air engines.  I take 3 discs, the first is the center one, it gets bored for the hub, and the spokes cut.  The other two become the rims, these are bolted to the central disc with counter bored holes for the cap screws, twelve in this case,  six in the smaller (4" to 6"),  I suppose its a model,  it was suggested that it might run a small lathe, the original had  hot tube ignition,  I,m going for a spark at this stage, get it going first. Ian S C
RICHARD GREEN 219/12/2010 12:39:09
329 forum posts
193 photos
Thanks for all your comments, and to answer Ramon's question , yes  it will be a true hot tube ignition, although I might also put a spark plug thread in the cylinder head plate so that I can try that option as well, and run it on a trembler coil.
Although these Gardners were originally hot tube, ( 1890's ),  they were made up until the 1920's,  I think the later ones had various types of ignition including magnetos, so a trembler coil was probably used at some time.
I'll put some more photo's on as work progresses, probably over the next couple of weeks.
 
                                                        Richard
MikeD19/12/2010 13:02:39
5 forum posts
IIwepfijkn
MikeD19/12/2010 13:08:41
5 forum posts
I made one of these Alyn Foundry engines with hot tube ignition 10 or 12 years ago, and although it will run perfectly well (on butane gas, but not propane), I have never been able to get the hot tube hot enough with the as supplied design burner. Although it is quite a big engine, I did manage to make it on my Myford S7B, and a drill press, but the flywheel is ABSOLUTELY on the limit of the Myford!
I'll be interested to see how yours runs.
 
MikeD 
JasonB19/12/2010 13:32:37
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
A friend of a friend has built the engine with a proper gas ring inside the hot tube, hopefully they will chip in on this thread, I've let them know about it.
 
Jason
ronnie barker21/12/2010 19:11:13
33 forum posts
8 photos
i have built a gardner from scratch and messed with 2 others to try and get them to run, this is a fun engine to build but a different story to get to run!
i made alot of changes to mine from the drawings to get it more to the real thing and to get it to run!!!
 
i built mine 4 years ago but last weekend i saw a friend of mine who has just built a gardner and i cant belive what he has done to it!
 
as jason says my mate has made a gas ring to go inside the hottube which is as it should be, the problem hes had is the engine will run fine on this ring untill he puts the cap on the chimney then the ring goes out and the engine stops not enough upward draft.
to over come this he bored the the chimney out as big as he could and put a stainless steel liner in and made the cap bigger problem solved.
 
the other thing robert has done is made the gas tap on the engine a dummy and brought a VERY fine needle valve from mapplins to have better control over the gas.
if anybody wants further information on this i will ask him.
 
from what ive learnt you have to have the tube red hot and i mean hot!
 
it would be a good idea to set the engine to run on a spark plug first so that when its running you will know the gas supply is correct for the engine and it will only need the tube setting up
 
best wishes jonathan    

Edited By ronnie barker on 21/12/2010 19:13:16

Jonesthenuke12/03/2013 21:20:50
5 forum posts

Hi, I am currently making one of these. Currently looking to finish the crank, in particular the oil way to the con rod bearing. The drawing shows this facing "inwards" towards the centreline of the main bearings, which to me seems counter-intuitive. I am tempted to drill in the other direction so that centrifugal action throws the oil outwards into the bearing. I am wondering what the original engine design was, any idea?

Chris

Ian S C14/03/2013 00:15:42
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7468 forum posts
230 photos

Chris, perhaps it's that way to some what restrict oil flow, the oil will still get there. Ian S C

RICHARD GREEN 214/03/2013 09:09:42
329 forum posts
193 photos

Hello Chris, I havn't finished my Gardner yet, but thought the same as you about the crank oil hole, I drilled mine as you suggest with the hole pointing outwards, I don't think there will be any problems with it.

Richard.

Jonesthenuke14/03/2013 18:57:46
5 forum posts

Thanks for the replies. I think i will go with the facing outwards approach. The oil feed is only into the centreline of the crank pin from a "trough" that is shallower than the crank pin diameter, so I see no viable mechanism to ensure oil will flow when the engine is rotating. I will also try the Anson museum and see what they have to say.

Chris

Edited By Jonesthenuke on 14/03/2013 18:59:59

Ian S C15/03/2013 11:58:45
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7468 forum posts
230 photos

On the 6HR Ruston Hornsby that I have a bit to do with the oil hole on the crank pin are outward, the oil is fed from an open ring on the outside of the crank cheek, that is fed by a drip feed oiler. I'm afraid oil management is a bit haphazard because of infrequent use, it should be running 8hrs a day with a load on, as it is, it wouldn't do 8hrs in a year, and the only load it has is a generator with a couple of 40 watt light bulbs. Ian S C

Jonesthenuke15/03/2013 18:40:03
5 forum posts

Thanks for the replay Ian.

In addition I have queried this with the Anson Museum who have (very helpfully) replied as fdollows:-

The original oil hole, as you suggest, goes outwards. When I quizzed Graham who made the original castings for the model, he thought it might act as an oil retaining feature by doing it the opposite way. I don’t know of anyone having a problem with the lubrication but if I was building one I would probably do it opposite to the drawing.

So the consensus seems to be oil hole facing radially outwards, so that is what I will be doing.

Thanks all!smiley

Chris

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