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Rishton VM60 vs Sieg super X3

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Chris Farbrace12/06/2010 21:48:16
17 forum posts
Hi,can anyone help solve a dilemma,I could either buy a new super X3 and stand or a used good condition Rishton VM60 mounted on a warco stand and tray for around the same price of £1200.The Rishton appears to have had very little use with a table with no gouges etc all controls and spindle run smoothly.The only info.I could find about it was on Lathes uk but not much.Do any of you very experienced members have any thoughts about what would be the best buy,the Rishton seems very well constructed and unusual in having an oil filled  gearbox,have these been known to give any problems?The asking price seems consistant with one sold on lathes uk previously that was fitted with dro and powerfeed,any help and advice gratefully recieved,thanks regards Chris
harold12/06/2010 22:22:16
35 forum posts
Hi Chris.
 
I'm very new to this stuff myself and faced pretty much the same question about a year ago. I chose an X3, principally because there is a huge repository of information about it on the web and in print. I wanted to take it to bits right down to the last grain of Chinese sand and then rebuild it, thinking that , by getting stuck in,  I'd at least understand how it's put together. Also the Far Eastern tools are often described (possibly unkindly now) as a 'kit of parts'.... while an older machine is also going to need some looking at. Either way you're going to get your hands dirty, so you'll need some guidance. If your guidance is (like mine) going to come from reading and forum lurking, then I'd suggest the SX3. If you have an engineering background, an engineering mate or a convenient night-school class (ha!), then please ignore the above!
 
Kind regards,
 
John
 

 
 

Edited By harold on 12/06/2010 22:24:49

Bogstandard13/06/2010 04:04:38
263 forum posts
Chris,
 
There will always be advocates for buying good old iron or UK manufacturers, I used to be one of them.
 
I now run far eastern lathe and mill, and wouldn't have it any other way.
 
You have to look to the future, spares availability, and costs involved in keeping the machines running, are they a stable machine which will give consistency to what you want to make? etc.
 
Now I have done the final tweaks to both my machines (very little needed and about 2 years ago), a Chester Crusader and a Chester 836 mill, I would never go back to the overpriced, underspecced UK offerings of what is available now in the market place. 
 
I would put my machines up against any of the so called 'elite' badged machines from today and yesteryear, some of them still using the same format of manufacture from 50 or 60 years ago.
 
It isn't the machine that makes the machinist, but the other way around. Plus you are very doubtful ever to go into major production runs, so even one of the far eastern machines, if looked after, should last you a lifetime.
 
Closely consider your options, will it do what I want it to do? Look what people have to say about models and types of machines, and don't be swayed by elitist attitudes.
 
It is your money you will be spending, so the choice has to be yours in the end, and you will have to live with your choice of machine for a fair amount of time.
 
 Bogs
 
STK200813/06/2010 21:27:22
116 forum posts
16 photos
Hi I new and cant help on the main question sorry but if I may butt in here please and ask Bogstandard a question please.
 
Did you get the mill and lathe you talk about from chester tools
 
http://www.chesteruk.net/
 
this lot if so is the machines that good or do they need tweaking from the get go to machine aluminum   and are chester tools a good company.
 
Sorry to sound all paranoid its just that when you intend to spend a lot of money you want to know you are getting not just a good machine but the people you are getting it from are ok.
 
Thanks and sorry to steal your thread
Bogstandard14/06/2010 03:05:48
263 forum posts
STK,
 
On the 836 mill, I had to change the plastic fine feed handle to a metal one more to my liking, other than that, in over 2 years of hardish use, I had to do a £2 bearing change that took ten minutes. The bearing hadn't failed, I just thought it wasn't smooth enough to my liking. That is it for the mill, it needed no adjustments at all when it was delivered, and I haven't needed to do any since. Just pump the auto lube every now and then, and give the spindle a bit of oil at the start of the day.
I did fit a 3rd axis to the DRO and a second Z axis readout to the quill, and the usual thing, you don't even look at the feed handles, it is all done by DRO settings, which are super accurate. I used the spare 2 axis readout on the lathe, so I now have DRO readouts on the compund and tailstock as well as the normal ones.
 
The lathe, much of the same thing, but I adjusted the ways to my 'feel' and did a couple of mods that aren't really required, just getting the machine more to my liking. I did have the capacitors in the motor fail after about 6 months, but instead of sending me the caps, they sent me a complete new motor. It came the next day, took about an hour to change (I had to drag the lathe out from the wall) and has been running perfectly ever since.
 
I did have Chester do a few mods for me before delivery, a larger chip screen and removal of the leadscrew guards, mainly because I used to do a lot of faceplate work, and those two as supplied bits cramped my style a little.
 
As for Chester UK. I personally can't find fault in their after sales service, and I have been using them since their 'tin shack' days on the outskirts of Chester, and they have always sorted things to my satisfaction.
In the early days, the machines were a bit rough but functional (most of the time), but nowadays, their quality control has improved dramatically, but you won't find any body filler or thick coats of paint to cover up casting imperfections, what you see is what you get, still a bit rough in places, but that is just cosmetic. Paint doesn't cut metal, the machines do that, and for me, very well indeed.
I let the lathe spindle warm for ten minutes at the start of the day, and once the job is set up, it will hold to 2/10ths all day, time after time, and if you get the DRO option like I did, I don't even look at the machine dials any more, put a thou cut on using the DRO, and it takes a thou off (or 2 thou, depending on how you set up the DRO).
 
Bogs
Bogstandard14/06/2010 08:37:23
263 forum posts
I would just like to add something to the above post that I had forgotten about.
 
One for the mill. About six months ago, I fitted a new fitting to the R8 taper, and it snapped off the drive pin inside the quill. A little work on the lathe soon had a new pin made out of a longish 5mm grub screw which took about 15 mins to change, been perfect ever since..
 
The lathe does have one major fault if you use suds. The access panel for the tank and pump is at the back of the cabinet rather than the front. So if you have the lathe against the wall, you can't get to it.
 
I don't use it at all, and got rid of the external pipework and electrically disconnected it, good idea, lousy to use.
To get around the no coolant problem, I made myself a simple spraymist system, and it does away with flood coolant and it's associated problems forever. In an hours cutting, I use about a tablespoonful of water/oil total loss an hour, and that just evaporates away, no getting the machine and myself drenched in the stuff .
 
 Bogs
STK200814/06/2010 08:50:24
116 forum posts
16 photos
Blimey Bogstandard that is very helpful I can see I am going to like my stay here as I can all ready see this is a close community.
 
Thanks for the very helpful reply I will probably get both machines from Chester tools as you have just eased my mind that bit more and there prices look very good to.
 
When I get the money up I am looking at this lathe
 
 http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_lathe_super.htm
 
and this mill
 
http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm
 
Thanks
 

 
 
Chris Farbrace15/06/2010 19:24:06
17 forum posts
Hi,many thanks to John and Bogs for replying to my question. For beginners like me rapid expert advice is invaluable and thats where this forum shines through,regards Chris 
KWIL15/06/2010 20:44:28
3681 forum posts
70 photos
For the record, the pin inside the R8 taper is NOT a drive pin, it is there to locate the R8 tool whilst you are drawing the taper in with the drawbar. It is not intended to take any significant shear load. If it does, it will shear off.
Stub Mandrel16/06/2010 21:05:11
avatar
4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
Hi Bogs
 
I haven't come across spraymist lubrication for cuttiong tools before. How does it work?
 
Neil
Derekm17/06/2010 23:25:38
2 forum posts
I'll echo Stubbie's post above about the spraymist lube. Any info. on operation and sources will be gratefully received.
Derekm
Bogstandard18/06/2010 05:02:30
263 forum posts
Try this, it might explain it a little, and there is a link to ones for sale
 
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2265.0
 
 
Bogs
Derekm18/06/2010 07:48:03
2 forum posts
You really burn the midnight oil, don't you?
 
Many thanks for the info; that is comprehensive.
Derekm
 

harold18/06/2010 10:55:18
35 forum posts
Yet another thanks from me, Bogs.
You are a gifted man indeed.
 
Regards,
 
John
Bogstandard18/06/2010 21:21:58
263 forum posts
Not gifted John, just  a rough and tumble model engineer who likes to share his little projects with the world.
 
They might not work for everyone, but what I show works for me. There are always a few ways to skin a cat, I usually take the easiest way possible.
 
Derekm, I have to grab sleep when I can, so time of day means nothing to me.
 
 
Bogs
 

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