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DAVID HOWORTH23/09/2009 20:34:44
19 forum posts
Dear Members,
I am looking to purchase either a new, or good used milling machine that I would also use for drilling, but having looked on the Internet I am amazed by the number of Manufacturers that there are.
The machine would be used for the machining of components for small static steam engines of various types.
I would welcome any advice on "make and size" that any Member would like to suggest with any other comments they wish to offer, that help me in my choice.
Thanks, David.
 
Peter G. Shaw27/09/2009 19:14:27
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Hi David,
 
I see no-one else has come up with anything so I'll just relate my experiences.
 
For reasons of weight, ie a one man band, I decided that I wanted a milling machine of less that 100kgs. Also, I decided that I wanted a square column to avoid the possible loss of  sideways  registration when moving the head up and down. Effectively this meant I was limited to the Sieg X2 or equivalent.
 
Unfortunately this machine has two problems. One is that the electronics are suspect (MOSFET blowing) and the internal plastic gears are liable to break.
 
Now Warco have a MiniMill. It is not made by Sieg, but certainly does seem to be based on that design. Warco's machine has a 550W motor against the standard 350W so I hope the electronics have been suitably upgraded. In any case, for  me, changing a MOSFET is no big deal. However, as I quickly found out, it DOES have the plastic internal gears. And they DO break. Fortunately, Arc Euro Trade do have some metal gears for (I think) the C2 or C3 lathe (not sure which), and these are also suitable for the X2 and the Warco MiniMill.
 
Please note: I am not complaining about the MiniMill. I was aware of the possible problems, but hoped otherwise. Furthermore, I have no connection with Arc Euro Trade other than as a customer.
 
Good luck in your quest.
 
Peter G. Shaw

Frank Dolman28/09/2009 07:01:36
106 forum posts

 For Peter G Shaw's reasons, plus shortage of space, I have also decided on Warco's Mini Mill. I would therefore be very pleased to see full details of replacing the gears with metal ones from Arc Euro Trade or anybody else.  I rather gather from his post that Peter has not yet done the job but when he has or if anybody else has, I am all ears ( or eyes)
Stewart Hart28/09/2009 07:28:39
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674 forum posts
357 photos
Hi Dave
 
Have got a seig X3 and I'm very pleased with it as for the gear issue with the X2 a lot of people have converted to belt drive to get round the issue of the plastic gears, its not a very difficult job I think you can buy a kit to do it. You can find more information on mills her
http://madmodder.net/index.php?board=6.0
 
Hope this helps
 
Stew 
mgj28/09/2009 17:55:51
1017 forum posts
14 photos
I would think that probably the best small mill you can get is a Dore Westbury  Mk11 - if you can be sure it was made well. (And if it wasn't you can take it to bits quite easily and sort it out) And you can find one.
 
Many have power feed + auto knock off. Many also have the low speed gearbox which gets you down to a sensible speed for flycutting on a large radius. Thrust bearings in all the handles, large feed nuts. Astonishingly versatile little machine and purpose designed for the model engineer.
 
Spares  - well you can make anything yourself, on a 3 1/2 inch lathe.
 
And no, mine is not up for sale - too useful.
Bob28/09/2009 19:38:54
51 forum posts
1 photos
Might not be too helpful, but if you can find one the little BCA jig borer is a delightful machine for model engineering.
 
Bob
Peter G. Shaw29/09/2009 14:11:09
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Frank,
 
Because I broke mine a few weeks after purchase, I obtained (under warranty) replacement plastic gears from Warco, however at about the same time there were a number of articles in MEW about improvements to the X1 lathe, and other equipment, As a result, I decided to incorporate some of these into the MiniMill at the same time.
 
My problem is that a) it is a hobby, and thus doesn't rate overhighly in the general scale of things; and b) I get involved in doing other things, both hobby type, and for the house & grandchildren, hence I haven't yet finished the repair/overhaul.
 
It may be of interest to note that like other people, I have found casting residue where it shouldn't be!
 
As to the actual gears, this does involve a major dismantling to get at them, eg (from memory) remove motor & controller, remove spring return, remove top stop, lift head upwards and off the slide, remove slow and fast vertical feed mechanism, remove speed change lever, remove rear of head (it's in two parts), remove intermediate shaft (requires knocking out of bearings, and finally remove main shaft/spindle (also requires knocking out of bearings). 
 
Then replace and rebuild in reverse order.
 
The Arc Euro Trade metal gear set does appear to be a direct replacement. I haven't tried them for a fit, but they measure exactly the same as the original plastic gears and so I have no reason to believe they will not work. I have to say that I only found out about these after I had obtained and fitted the replacement plastic gears, so they are now in stock just in case. I'm loth to replace until forced into it because of the difficulty in knocking out and replacing the bearings.
 
Yes it is true that there are belt drive conversions available for the X2, and by all accounts they are quieter as well, however, until I see that someone has successfully converted a MiniMill, I will leave well alone, the reason being that although the MiniMill does appear to be based on the X2, there may well be, in fact definitely are, slight differences between the two mills, eg the spring return system for the vertical motion, and, I think, the location of the speed gear change handle. Furthermore, I have a general dislike of making changes which cannot be reversed in the event of unforeseen problems.
 
For what it's worth, I do now think I may have made a mistake in buying this mill. One of my reasons was because of lifting limitations as a sole worker, however after I had bought the maxhine, there was an article in MEW where someone bought an X3 or similar, and dismantled it to get it into place - something that I never though of. I did want the biggest I could comfortably handle, and had the idea of dismantling to install occurred, then I may well have gone for a bigger machine. Having said that, I do not have any reason to criticise the MiniMill - I went into it with my eyes open, and it does seem to do what it is supposed to do.
 
Hope this helps, Frank.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw.
Frank Dolman29/09/2009 15:32:33
106 forum posts
Thanks Peter for your very full reply. I am left as undecided as before, but with much
more to be undecided about. Even your summary seems to come to a conclusion that is
specific to yourself!  To add to my woes, it is clear that Sterling will shortly go down the
tubes, so urgent action is rquired.  Oh deary deary me.
Robin Graham29/09/2009 17:32:39
1089 forum posts
345 photos
I am in a somewhat similar position to the OP and have read the above with interest - I had been considering the Warco mini-mill as well, but I'm a bit put off by hearing that it suffers from the notorious plastic - gear problem.  As a complete tyro I suppose I'm bound to shear the gears probably sooner rather than later and the process Peter describes for replacing them sounds rather daunting.  Also I have read that the gears are pretty noisy - not good for me as my 'workshop' is in the house.
 Has anyone any experience of Warco's WM-14 mill? It is a bit more expensive, but does come with 'an individual accuracy report' which might indicate that Warco have more confidence in the build quality.
Regards, Robin
DAVID HOWORTH29/09/2009 23:12:56
19 forum posts
Thank you very much for your replies everyone, and for sharing your experiences of them with me. I think I am going to have to study in some detail the replies you all posted.
The main thing that does bother me about all of the small milling machines that seem to be on offer today, and it was mentioned by Peter initially, and that is they  they all have variable speed motors and plastic gears ( what happened to the belt drive ) which I am not happy about at all.
Thanks again everybody, I will let you know what I finally go for in the next week or so.
Best regards, Dave.
Phil Ashman30/09/2009 13:56:20
33 forum posts
Robin,
 
I have a Warco WM-16, which I imagine is very similar to the 14, and I'm very pleased with it. It's robust and well made, and so far it's done everything that I've required of it. I've done a few basic accuracy measurements, which confirm the test report. But the gears are noisy. I thought it might be faulty at first, now I'm just used to it! The other thing that bothered me is the lack of provision for lubrication. You can do the obvious things like oiling the slides and the screws, but there's no provision for lubricating anything in the head, nor is it mentioned in the handbook. Perhaps it's not neccessary. But for a small workshop, I think this is an ideal mill.
 
Phil
Peter G. Shaw30/09/2009 15:00:53
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Robin,
 
For me, when I broke the gears, I was faced with either sending it back, or, as I had already partly dismantled to find the problem and hence possibly voiding any warranty, continuing on with the dismantling.
 
Like someone above has said, it's daunting, but then I simply got on with it.
 
I think, provided one is logical about it, it's not difficult to dismantle until you get to the point where the bearings are. This did cause me some problems, and I can only hope that I haven't damaged them.
 
I think next time, because I think there will be a next time, I will think about changing at least the main shaft bearings and devising some method of properly supporting the races as I reinsert. I did tend to use makeshift methods involving bricks,  large hex sockets, bits of tube and wood. Plus the obligatory 2lb & 1lb hammers!
 
And by the way, this is the first milling machine I have ever used.

Also, the MiniMill also comes with an individual test report.

Phil Ashman's comment re lubrication reminds me that somewhere I have seen something about using a sprayon (spray in??) grease for this type of machine. The write up suggested raising the head above the column until the inside of the head could be seen and then spraying. Perhaps one or two convenient holes could be drilled somewhere instead.
 
Finally, Frank Dolman comments that I have come to a conclusion that is specific to myself. In my very first post on this subject, I did indeed say that I would relate my experiences.

Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
ps. My very first line was " I see no-one else has come up with anything so I'll just relate my experiences." And that was after 4 days of no replies to David. If nothing else, I have managed to trigger off some more replies! So I've done some good!
 
Robin Graham30/09/2009 21:04:34
1089 forum posts
345 photos
Many thanks Phil and Peter for your responses to my post.  I think I'm veering towards the WM-14 - despite Peter's reassuring remarks, the idea of having to bash out bearings to change the gears scares me stiff. I'm very new to this - I've had a lathe for only four months, and have no background in engineering.  Perhaps I'll get down to the midland ME exhibition next month and see the machines 'in the flesh'.
Concerning the belt drive modification to the generic X2 mills suggested by Stewart Hart  (which I had been considering as a possibility for the Warco mini-mill) I guess that the kit he refers to is that offered by Stirling Steele. They have a video on their website showing how to use their kit to replace the gear train, and it seems far less daunting than the process Peter describes for replacing the gears - which makes me wonder if the differences between the Warco machine and the Sieg X2 are more than superficial.
Thanks again for your replies, and also to David Howorth for starting what (for me at least) is a very interesting thread.
Regards, Robin
 

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