2 inch Traction Engine, which one ?

After Weeting Rally last week my interest in traction engines and steam has been rekindled. Ime currently making a Wyvern and years ago made a Sweet Pea, I have a Super 7, Amadeal Mill and a shaper. My question is, is the DNY a good engine to build with my workshop. Ide like to hear from people who have built a DNY or some other 2” engine with similar workshop. A 3” would be the dream but I dont think the workshop equipment is big enough. Brunell seem to be the company with the castings although Blackgates list it but their on line catalog is dated many years ago. Maybe ime barking up the wrong tree so any help in identifying the right scale and suppliers would be a great help. Ime a capable amateur but probably will need boiler/gears made for me to prevent disappointment and wasted time.

the 2" Fowler A7 from MJ Engineering is another option and more detailed than the D&NY. An e-mail to Blackgates should get you an upto date price list and they would be the better of the two to deal with by far!

bear in mind the 2" engines don't cope so well with a rough rally field and do need more attention to keep the fire going. I have seen the 3" version of the A7 done mostly on a Myford and Warco mill with a few of the large parts done on borrowed machines

Thank you Jason. Youve given me plenty of food for thought. As for running a model thats not my thing really so the 2” scale and its cross country limitations isnt a worry. After I built the Sweet Pea I ran it about 10 times at public running, then sold it. My happy place is the workshop. I like to know a model functions correctly then move on. Ive been out of modelling for a number of years so have lost touch with who’s who in suppliers.

Just out of interest,how much would something like those cost to self build these days?? Something I’d love to make one day!

Andy, Ive not dare add it all up but depending on whether you do you own boiler or not its over £2k, probably more.

A friend of mine built the 2" scale fowler A7 from MJ Engineering, the drawings and castings were absolutely excellent and it turned out a lovely engine, his first build. He did however wish he'd buit the 3" version after running it for a while, for the reasons outlined by Jason above. It's a slippery slope he builds 6" scale ones now!

After the excellent castings and accurate drawings he couldn't believe how bad the drawings and castings for his next project a 5" gauge loco!

Dave

2K is unlikely to cover the cost of a boiler if made for you and not leave much change if you make it yourself.

Not looked at prices lately but £5K for castings, materials etc would not be far off the mark.

For a builders engine then the greater detal of the Fowler A7 will keep you happy in the workshop for a good while as everything is scaled down from full size where as like most of Hainings designs some parts are more for function than form.

I bought all the materials for building the 2" gold medal tractor from the original owners of MJ Engineering and the total cost in 1983 was about 500 quid .I built my own boiler this required a large torch which added to the cost and lots of silver solder.The cost kept rising over the years and with work and family commitments it took 29 years.I wished then that I had built a 3" but at my age a 2" is enough weight to lift into a car.I think Jason's estimate is about right.

Frank

A warning about Graham Howard and Brunell, I bought a compleete set of parts less finished gears 10 or so years ago, only a few ever arrived. He is a crook, and if he wants to complain I am only too happy to meet him in court.

A set of castings for the 2" Burrell is near £5k.But this is a very detailed engine, rather like the Allchin, a more simple one must be much quicker!

Boiler kit for 2" ploughinng engine was about £800, my made 2" boiler was £2.5k.

Jason, Frank, Bob, thank you for your interesting comments. Probably it’s today’s heat that makes me withdraw from boiler making thoughts. Everything is possible I guess although I remember the Anxious few days between the Sweet Pea soldering day and its first test. Thanks for the heads up on suppliers. Ive no problem with spending the cash providing what you get in return is worth it and the supplier is honest. I had a blow hole in a Hemingway casting, told them and they replaced it next day, perfect. Ime in no rush, hedge cutting season soon anyway so less time in the workshop and the Midlands exhibition to go to later. Maybe there I will get a close look at an A7 and DNY which will help the decision. The worst thing is to get out of my depth but there is always this forum I guess to come for help.

PS. Bob, Comments noted and I will steer clear.

I'm building an MJ Engineering Burrell gold medal at the moment and the castings/drawings are really first class. The build book is excellent too. I think MJ Engineering will be at the open day at Fareham MES on the 30th, so I hope to get down there to see some completed ones. Would be worth seeing for yourself.

I went for 2" as I'm an amputee and can't heft big items about. A 2" engine should be just about manageable, especially a Burrell which was a relatively small engine anyway.

I’ve had a long chat with MJ Engineering today and what a pleasure it was. Moving forward together and perhaps a 3” A7. The help he can offer for the larger components is great and ime looking forward to going down to look at some options.

Exciting - I'm also going through a similar thought process - although I need to finish my Minnie first - so realistically a year or two away.. Would be interested to know which path you choose after your trip to MJ...

Jason - do you have an updated photo album for your A7 build? I have read an number of your (as always excellent) threads on this and other forums to get a feel for the MJ model and whether it would be within my capabilities - but the earlier posts have a broken link to a photobucket album....

Regards

Dom

Not sure why the links are broken as I've always had a paid Photobucket account but these should take you to the two albums

A7 & A7 Construction

Dominic, Like you I have a project to finish but all the engineers ive ever come across have at least 3 on the go at same time.

Jason Great photos.

A few queries for those in the know:

What is the rule, please, for indicating the scale of a traction engine? Is two inches the track, or the wheelbase, or what? In other words, if I wish to sell such a toy, how do I decide how to describe it so that you will all understand?

Do our colleagues in Europe use the same system? ie: Is a 2" engine the same size exactly as a 50.8mm engine? If not, why not? How about Canada or New Zealand?

And finally, if we all talk in riddles so that only those who have been involved in the hobby for 20 years or more can understand, how can we expect to draw newcomers into the activity?

Regards, Tim

2" is 2" to the foot or 1/6th scale, 3" engine would be 3" to the foot or 1/4 scale

These are all true scales and the size of the engine will vary depending on the size of teh prorotype for example a 2" gold medal tractor was a small engine and may come up about 18" long in this scale yet a large prototype such as a ploughing engine will be in the region of 48" long for the same given 2" scale.

On the continent more common metric scales may bit a bit more common such as 1;2, 1:2.5, 1:5 and 1:10. The US tend to use fractional scales both for traction engines and locos

The two newcomers in this thread seem to know what sort of size engine they want to make and probably less confusing than a narrow gauge loco built to for one of the common gauges of track which could lead to several scales on engine on the same gauge.

Edited By JasonB on 20/07/2022 18:13:21

Many thanks Jason! Pictures look great! Photobucket probably changed the format of their shared links at some point..

Out of interest, if you were starting again would you still build the 2” or would you go for the 3”?

Dom

As I have no interest in rallying the engine and just like the building then 2" would do me. I've the castings for a 2" superba under the bench but doubt I'll get round to making it as my interests have moved away from traction engine models.

When I pull the trigger on this it will be 2”. Almost certainly the Fowler A7. The decision related to size and its storage/transportation needs and cost. Like Jason ime not one for rallying anyway, preferring to judt look at rallies. Its surprising how early impressions also make a difference. I have the build manuals now (80 to 120 pages of A4) for two models. One company had the cheek to charge £8 postage. The actual cost was about £2.50 plus a jiffy bag. OK in the bigger scheme of things its not the end of the world because model engineering isnt a cheap hobby these days, but feeling fiddled at the start of a project isnt a good place to be.