Live Steam boiler legality and Boilermaker Questions

Hello,

I have a few questions that I would like your help with which all involve live steam boilers as I am not entirely familiar with the law surrounding them and I cannot seem to find the answers to my questions clearly written anywhere (unless I'm simply being blind).

Essentially I am in the market for a new vertical boiler that is ready to use in (3-5" diameter, this boiler is to be used in a stationary setup.

At first It will simply be a home based Model however in the future I would like to possibly join a club and take it to model engineering shows. With the further possibility of marketing my design along with a boiler bought from a boilermaker.

My questions are:

1) Is there a requirement that all newly produced boilers have a CE marking?

2) What legislation affects Live steam boilers in this size range (3-5"

One further question that I hope I am allowed to ask (remove if you must)

Has anybody on here had any dealings with Pendle Steam Boilers? and would you would recommend them?

I question the CE markings as I have seen most Model boilers on the market today are being listed as having a CE marking whereas Pendle Steam Boilers does not?

Thank you for your help.

Requirement for CE marking depends on size. If volume is less than 2 litres the steam generator would fall into 'Sound Engineering Practice' in which case it must NOT be CE marked.

Above 2 litres CE marking is required if the item is 'placed on the market'.

Information on the UK implementation of the Pressure Equipment Directive is available at

**LINK**

The link on that page to the full guidelines wasn't working when I tried to follow it, so I haven't posted it.

If the safety valves are designed specifically for the steam generator, they follow the category of it - otherwise they are Safety Devices and are placed in the highest category and are subject to CE marking.

Hi James, the information provided by David id spot on. I dont think anyone on this forum has one of my boilers but to date I have never had a single complaint and would be very happy to put you in touch with an array of very happy customers. Check out an independant test by Roy Burton on Youtube, he has one of my Kingdon boilers, Ive got three to complete in the next few days **LINK**

Edited By JasonB on 23/01/2018 13:12:19

It's not simply a case of volume of the boiler - it's the product of volume and working pressure. My Clayton steam wagon boiler, for example is only about 1 litre, but its working pressure is 5,5Bar. 5,5 Bar litres brings it well within the requirements for CE marking. Even my Tom Rolt in 3.1/2"G is below 2 litres in volume.

James, I'd join a club now. Go along to one of your local clubs as a visitor and see what they're about. They should welcome you with open arms - and you'll have a source of good information to tap. Aske their boiler inspector(s) for advice.

If you refer to Chart 5 - Steam Generators, of PED that shows no pressure limit if V < 2 litres.

There is a special exception for pressure cookers, which are treated more strictly.

The lowest values for product PS.V is given in Chart 1 (for nasty gases) and is 25 bar.litres

I agree with Nigel, that some of the boundaries on the charts (including Chart 5) are set by the product PS.V

If an any doubt refer to the Charts yourself

**LINK**

Technically those notes are outdated, though easier to follow than the full text of the directive. The charts included are still correct, even for the updated 2014 version of the directive (effective 2016).

Nigel,

My understanding is that the CE marking is simply one of whether the pressure vessel is above or below 2 litres (e.g. simply volume). So David is correct in his statement.

This confusion arises I believe because of the use of 3 Bar Litre as being the boundary between a "small" (< 3 BL) and "large" (>3BL) boilers as defined in the current 'Green' (soon to be 'Orange' ) book used by Southern Fed, NAME and others when boiler testing/inspecting.

A new (commercial) boiler should therefore be CE marked if above 2 Litres but NOT marked if below. However, you should also received paperwork from the manufacturer to demonstrate that a 'shell' (x 2 working pressure) test has been undertaken by them - and that the materials used are traceable and suitable.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 23/01/2018 15:43:57

That was the situation, but it was simplified a few years ago.

Neil

I was mis-remembering - the situation applies to insurance limits and requirements for pressure testing (not CE marking), where the limit was raised from 1.5 to 3 bar-litres.

Full story by Richard Simpson, from our companion site www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/boiler-room-part-10-boiler-testing/8986

It is Neil's last paragraph that is important. Forget government websites and boilermaker's opinions if your boiler is not to become the equivalent of scrap metal it must meet the interpretation of all the rules as laid down by a Federation or MPBA etc otherwise you will never be able to use it at a public meeting or sell it on to another modeller. So join a club and speak to their inspectors an they will tell you what paperwork they need from the commercial builder. If in any doubt don't buy.

Mmmn - trying to post something that Word says is only 448 chars - but this site thinks is 1600 chars too long...

IanT 

Edited By IanT on 23/01/2018 20:35:48

Edited By IanT on 23/01/2018 20:57:27

Interesting. The last time I looked, those very regulations (or maybe their predecessors, but I don't think so due to the dates) specifically excluded fired boilers from their scope. Had to go into them very thoroughly to design & build a container for a Mars probe (Beagle 2) so it could cover a cocktail of small hazards for air transport. The only way to guarantee to get it approved quickly for flights over Europe to the launch site was to make a pressure vessel that would contain all hazards if everything failed catastrophically at the same time.

It was a while ago, but the regs seem to have familiar dates - but I wasn't looking at them with regard to a steam boiler at the time.

Regards

Richard.

Apologies - in my quote from the Green Book above - paragraph 6.4 somehow got corrupted (probably in my cutting and pasting too and fro to find the reason it wouldn't post).

It should correctly read;

6.4 The Inspector shall check that in the case of commercially made boilers these are CE marked (where required by The Pressure Equipment Regulations etc ........ )

Hope that makes more sense...

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 23/01/2018 22:29:37

For anyone who likes looking at photos of stationary or marine model boilers ive uploaded some photos onto my profile.

Hi all,

I discovered this, very helpful, thread whilst trawling through the net looking for info. on the testing of small marine boilers.

I am in the process of restoring an old Bassett Lowke "Streamlinia" steam launch which has a small brass boiler fitted. The boiler capacity is .52 litres with a working pressure of 45 psi and this, according to the hydraulic test certificate I obtained in 2018, equates to 1.56 bar litres.

Now, whilst I am safety conscious, it seems a bit of overkill to have to have such a small boiler regularly hydraulically tested every 5 years and, having discovered the info. quoted above (thank you Neil), I'm now wondering if it is absolutely necessary?

I am now nearing the completion of the restoration, I regularly check that the safety valve blows at the 45 psi indicated on the gauge and it does.

Many thanks in advance for any advise you can offer.

Mark

Mark, this is the revised Orange book mentioned in one of the posts above that now applies to boilers below the 3bar-ltr threshold and would apply if you wanted to run in public, what you do in your home is another thing but wise to have someone else check over the boiler

Many thanks for that.

It seems that it will require a test but only to 1.5 x working pressure.

When I'd had it tested before, in April 2018, it was to 2 x working pressure. This was obviously just a few days before these new regulations came in.

Mark

I believe first test x2 working press and thereafter x1.5

H