Carl Wilson 4 | 28/05/2017 14:57:01 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | I've been reading the silver Soldering article in MEW and enjoying it as well as learning. I think it would be a good process for me to learn as it could solve a few problems for me. I'm generally tig welding most things. Wondered if there is anyone in the Inverness or Elgin area with the kit that would be kind enough to consider letting me have a go, and show me the ropes. That would be an easier way to get a good handle on how the process could work out for me and what gear I would need. I'm a monkey see monkey do type. Thank in advance Carl. |
Speedy Builder5 | 28/05/2017 15:29:23 |
2878 forum posts 248 photos | Hi Carl, can you soft solder plumbing fittings? If you can, then silver solder follows much the same. Surfaces should be clean, flame should be hot enough to get the part(s) to dull red heat. Just to try it out, buy a length of silver solder and packet of flux. for examples look here **LINK** |
Carl Wilson 4 | 28/05/2017 17:15:03 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Fair comment and thanks for the advice. What I was thinking was that in learning any new technique there are all the little tricks and bits of know how that you learn over time. Usually a long time. So I was hoping to have someone show me and thereby speed up the whole thing. |
Neil Wyatt | 28/05/2017 19:27:43 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | I was wondering what the difference is between the 'Inverness' and 'Elgin' techniques? Is this like the 'West Lothian' question? Neil |
Keith Hale | 29/05/2017 10:03:32 |
![]() 334 forum posts 1 photos | Hi Carl Two thoughts. Firstly get to understand the principle of silver soldering - capilllary flow.What to do, why and how. Visit **LINK** There is a short video clip to help you. Secondly there is a separate video going into more detail about the principles and how it relates to boiler manufacture. The best of both worlds. Good technical advice and a demo from a true professional Helen Stait of Western Steam. But for help at any time call us on 01909 547248 Regards Keith.
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Carl Wilson 4 | 29/05/2017 10:30:48 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Thank you for that interesting info. The thing I want to solder is not unlike a boiler in principle. Except that it is made up of a series of aluminium tubes. It can be thought of as a type of heat exchanger. I was and may still tig weld this assembly. The two issues with this are as follows:- Aluminium is weakened in the Haz after welding, though I have processes to deal with this. Some of the tubes are quite small and so the welding is going to be "interesting". So you can see why silver Soldering looks attractive. There are other issues that may rule it out like mechanical strength at elevated temperatures, but this is a preliminary investigation. |
roy entwistle | 29/05/2017 10:37:27 |
1716 forum posts | I think I am right in saying that you cannot silver solder aluminium I believe it can be soft soldered using special fluxes and alloys Roy Edited By roy entwistle on 29/05/2017 10:42:45 |
Carl Wilson 4 | 29/05/2017 10:56:57 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Thanks Roy - would that be due to the process temperature required or some other reason? Just reading that brazing is up at 610 degree C, similar or at aluminium melting point. Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 29/05/2017 10:58:31 |
Neil Wyatt | 29/05/2017 11:06:11 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 29/05/2017 10:56:57:
Thanks Roy - would that be due to the process temperature required or some other reason? Just reading that brazing is up at 610 degree C, similar or at aluminium melting point. Yep, silver soldering becomes 'alloying' when attempted with aluminium Neil |
Roderick Jenkins | 29/05/2017 11:44:05 |
![]() 2376 forum posts 800 photos | Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 29/05/2017 10:30:48:
Thank you for that interesting info. The thing I want to solder is not unlike a boiler in principle. Except that it is made up of a series of aluminium tubes. It can be thought of as a type of heat exchanger. I was and may still tig weld this assembly. The two issues with this are as follows:- Aluminium is weakened in the Haz after welding, though I have processes to deal with this. Some of the tubes are quite small and so the welding is going to be "interesting". So you can see why silver Soldering looks attractive. There are other issues that may rule it out like mechanical strength at elevated temperatures, but this is a preliminary investigation. In that case HTS2000 may be the stuff to use. I'very been impressed with it. HTH, Rod Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 29/05/2017 11:45:31 |
Carl Wilson 4 | 29/05/2017 16:39:34 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Interesting stuff this HTS2000. Seen similar before. Only niggle is can never seem to find any definitive mechanical and physical properties for it, or a composition. What I am building is also a pressure vessel so I need to know the properties for certain. |
Carl Wilson 4 | 29/05/2017 16:47:57 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Well the website reckons a uts of 45900psi, which is 316MPa. This is about the same as 6082. Reckon I might have to get some and do some joints then pull them apart.... |
George Clarihew | 29/05/2017 20:36:51 |
80 forum posts | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/05/2017 19:27:43:
I was wondering what the difference is between the 'Inverness' and 'Elgin' techniques? Is this like the 'West Lothian' question? Neil Nivvir min, Inverness technique is in the Gaelic and Elgin technique is in Doric spik. Edited By George Clarihew on 29/05/2017 20:37:12 |
Keith Hale | 30/05/2017 08:55:49 |
![]() 334 forum posts 1 photos | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/05/2017 11:06:11:.
Yep, silver soldering becomes 'alloying' when attempted with aluminium ?????????????? Keith |
Carl Wilson 4 | 30/05/2017 09:15:28 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | The row of question marks suggests you don't agree with Neil's assertion, Keith. What is your take? Does the oxide layer on aluminium have any effect? While we are about it, I have had a little bit of exposure to Tig brazing, using either bronze or aluminium bronze rods. I concluded that I needed more practice. I think that with a gas torch ie mapp or the like it would be a struggle to get an aluminium assembly up to temperature. It conducts heat away so well. I know from my tig welding the amount of energy in the form of current that is required to melt it. Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 30/05/2017 09:19:23 |
JasonB | 30/05/2017 10:03:50 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/05/2017 11:06:11:
Yep, silver soldering becomes 'alloying' when attempted with aluminium Neil I think Neil was suggesting that it will all melt into a messy lump hence the winky To silver solder you need to get the actual parts upto a temp of at least the melting point of the solder so that would mean getting the ali upto 650+deg, it may not flow but would start to sag and distort. Edited By JasonB on 30/05/2017 10:06:18 |
Carl Wilson 4 | 30/05/2017 10:14:10 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | Bit if a non starter in that case. |
roy entwistle | 30/05/2017 16:12:48 |
1716 forum posts | Perhaps Keith from Cup Alloys would explain why aluminium can't be silver soldered ( Or if it can, how ) Roy |
Carl Wilson 4 | 30/05/2017 16:15:56 |
![]() 670 forum posts 53 photos | I'm sure he can. My feeling is the the very high thermal conductivity would make things difficult to get the workpiece up to temperature. |
Mike Poole | 30/05/2017 16:18:10 |
![]() 3676 forum posts 82 photos | Would the melting point of aluminium and silver solder being similar be a problem ? Mike |
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