Deckel FP1 Mk2

Hi all,

I have the chance to buy a Deckel FP1 Mk2 and I'd be grateful of the forums view on these. The research I have done on the internet suggests it's a very capable piece of kit that will grow with me as my machining skills increase.

It's in fair condition, mainly covered in old grease. Some paint loss as you would expect, but the ways move smoothly and I cannot see that there is a lot wrong with it. The motor has a two two speed box, with the slow speed going slower than the brass plaque suggests (according to my handheld tachometer) and the upper one higher (two speed seems to be 2,500 rpm, when the plaque suggests it should be 1,900 rpm). Which leads me to wonder if the motor is not original. Now the motor is a beast of a thing, at least as deep at the mill itself. To replace this would be great, as it would make the footprint smaller. However, what size motor would I need for this? I am trying to replace the motors in my studio with 36v motors, so that things run off solar panels. So far I have done one of the winding machines with a 2800 rpm 1/4hp belted down 3.5:1 and I am about to try converting the Frederick Pollard & Co twin headed pedestal drill press with a 2800rpm 1 1/3hp motor belted down to 2:1 (the original was a 3/4hp).

So any thoughts on the above very welcome, either feedback on the mill itself or thoughts on the type of motor power required.

Kind regards,

James

MABEL & CO

Establishing an organic tweed weaving studio on the Suffolk Coast.

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Hi James ive just restored a Alexander toolmaker ,which is almost identical to the Deckel,in fact Alexander was selling/making Alexander/ Deckels under license until the outbreak of WWII. Mine is only the 2 lever type which uses changewheels for feed speeds. Yours will have four levers i think so no messing with changewheels.

I have really done anything with mine yet as im still gathering tooling ,as mine didnt come with an awful lot.

I changed the humungous motor to a 2hp 3 ph and an inverter drive. Cant help with solar powered supplies and motors .

They are fantastic mills and extremely well built and very accurate.

You can see mine here in this album.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_album.asp?a=42647

And heres a photo of the massive motor that came with mine a 440v 2 speed job which must weight around 50kg by itself.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 19/11/2016 19:02:17

Edited By mark smith 20 on 19/11/2016 19:05:17

Wow, amazing job! Did you have everything sandblasted and stove paint applied? That's a great finish.

James

Hi James , no sandblastering just alot of scraping ,filling with high build primer and then machinery enamel from Paragon paints. Takes along time. I just looked at your instagram page, you`ve got a large job on with the mill renovation. I like your use of linseed oil paints ,but dont know how it holds up on machinery .

Do you have the deckel manual?

That's really interesting, never thought of filling - I'll have to look into it. What brand do you use?

The Linseed paint is interesting. I have found it to be really tough, because it doesn't go rock hard it doesn't chip. Obviously I don't know how it will go long term. But it is the traditional finish for the underside of cars. Certainly in Scandinavia it's an external paint with 10-15 year lifespan. It will be interesting to see. The only downside so far is that brush stoke free finish is quite hard to achieve - I am currently painting the Pollard drill and trying thinning it down with neat linseed oil. It's improving it, but I have gone too far on some with too much neat oil.

james

Hi James i just used this ,cheap and very effective as it dries fast and you can put several layers on ,then wet sand.

Its exactly the same as more expensive brands, as ive also used those.

Stinks though as it contains xylene.

**LINK**

Just looked at Marks album and realised that I operated one of these machines around 45 years ago.

James

The Deckel is indeed a very capable piece of kit but, considering the relatively small work envelope, its a big, complex, machine. You also need a fair selection of accessories and considerable skill to exploit its advantages over more conventional machines such as the common Bridgeport or larger bench top mills. Not really a machine for "L plate" drivers as there are plenty of ways to set things up wrong with puzzling results.

Biggest issue when its the only mill in the shop is the lack of vertical room. Unlike, for example, Bridgeports Deckels don't do well as mill drills. They are great if you want a hole at an odd angle but for ordinary vertical drilling they just run out of space. Similarily it can be hard to set up for internal milling on a component with walls round the outside. Deckel rotary tables are low profile for good reason. if you look at the various pictures around the internet of Deckels in use you will see that most of them exploit the table movements to bring larger parts up to the cutter. Sort of thing that needs good 3 D visualisation to do easily and remembering to put things back right afterwards.

Workspace restrictions aren't a great worry for most Model Engineering type jobs outside the large scale traction engine and big loco worlds so the versatility is a great advantage. On 12" to the foot scale jobs you do have to think seriously about how it will all fit in.

Disclaimer. I do mostly 12" to the foot work, have a Bridgeport (but would prefer a Beaver) and a Deckel as a second mill would be great but a Deckel on its own would never do.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 19/11/2016 21:31:53

Edited By Clive Foster on 19/11/2016 21:32:23

Edited By Clive Foster on 19/11/2016 21:32:45

Clive, having operated one and similar types of machine I have to agree. A turret mill is far more useful for everyday use. I used a Deckle of this type when working as a mould maker, our milling section was well equipped and we each had a "Cell" containing this type of Deckle a Bridgeport and in my case a Deckle KF12 copy mill and a spark erosion machine. In the days before CAD/CAM different skills where required to produce injection moulds and the mixed abilities of the group of machines came in handy.

Hi Clive and Chris,

Thanks so much for your advice - it's really appreciated. As I say I am restoring a Frederick Pollard twin headed drill press at the moment, which has feet of vertical space, so that's not so much of an issue. There are a few other factors with the Deckel, firstly I am running out of space in my studio! So it's quite a compact milling solution and at the moment I am only looking to mill small parts, replacement components on the looms etc Secondly just practical considerations, it's mine for around £750 and it's in a studio almost next to mine, so no big transportation issues or costs.

It doesn't come over run with parts, but it does have a dividing head, horizontal head and a few other pieces such as collets and mill ends - it was used in a local engineering workshop until it was exchanged for an elm staircase!

I appreciate what you say with regard to it not being an L plate model and I will give that some real thought - maybe see if I can find the manual for it online. Presumably though you can lock down things like the rotating head etc and use it just as a standard x, y, z mill (I appreciate that you would need to check they hadn't moved before use)?

I won't contemplate this or any other mill until the new year, it's not going anywhere. So plenty of time to think and consider.

James

James,

You have received excellent advice so far

May I just add that [subject to nothing important being broken, missing, or clapped-out], there is no substitute for 'build quality' ... and Deckel is up there with the best.

You can surely fit a smaller motor [in terms both of physical size, and power], even if that means taking lighter cuts.

Good luck with it, and with your venture.

MichaelG.

I think a deckel FP1 size machine is absolutely great for a small home workshop ,if like me your working on small projects. I have a drill press like most people so the rather short quill feed is not a problem. They are a very solid machine and im sure it would be ideal for you.

At that price it is a steal. I wish my Alexander had come with the dividing head ,mine only came with the arm for it .

James,

Deckels are top notch.

Might you be best using the 1 1/3hp motor on the Deckel and fitting a smaller (& cheaper) one to the drill press. You REALLY don't need that much power for the work you're considering, especially steeped down 2:1.

Neil

Thanks for the feedback - really helpful.

Believe it or not, I actually use motors designed for scooters. They are 36v and so fit in the system without the need for a transformer and they are very economical (c£60). The down side is that (at the moment) the supply of them seems a bit hit and miss. I was looking for a 3/4hp motor for the drill press, but couldn't get hold of one. So I bought the 1 1/3hp one. Eventually, if I can get the 3/4hp, using this on the mill is a good idea Neil.

I've not looked into the spindle speed of the Deckel, but I assume that the motor will also need to be stepped down 2:1, maybe a bit more (usually the things were designed to run with 1425rpm motors and at 36-40v the scooter motors tend to be around 3000rpm). So presumably that will be enough ooph. Obviously I don't know the long term life of these motors, but their biggest nemesis tends to be over heating. This can be improved by taking it apart and drilling air vents, but given that I have the duel concern of using as little battery as possible I fit foot switches to all machine (also a safety feature) so that when not in actual use the machine is off and hence has a chance to cool and isn't using battery. I realise this is something I might want to give more thought to on the mill, where it is going to be on for longer periods.