How do I fit end mills in my old Myford lathe

I have an old myford, probably ML1 or 2 lathe and have only ever used it for making small turned parts but I now need to mill some aluminum. Can I just put an end mill in the chuck or do I really need a collet of some kind. The morse taper in the spindle is only MT1 I think in my lathe.

Thanks for any help/advice.

Mal

It's not recomended to hold mills in the chuck, I've just bought a 6mm MT collet to hold mine. I have previously been experimenting with a home made mill in a chuck but the cutter can vibrate loose and chew into the work.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/Morse-Taper-Collets

Edited By john carruthers on 25/07/2015 08:20:11

Hi Mal,
I can see nothing wrong with holding an end mill or slot drill in a LATHE chuck as the chuck is screwed on to the spindle. They warnings about not using a chuck refer to a drill chuck which is normally held on to the arbor by a taper. The taper is fine for axial loads as in drilling but can come loose with the lateral loads involved when milling. Bear in mind that if there is runout on the chuck the cutter will cut oversize.

Les.

The problem I found was the home made cutter was pulling itself into the work, no matter how much I tightened the chuck. I got round it by turning a shoulder that fitted into the jaw serations.
Hopefully the new gear will run better, find out in a bit when I get to the shed

If you hold it in the 3 jaw put shims of ali drinks can around it. The problem is the dead hard jaw cannot bite on the dead hard mill. A bit of extra shim can compensate for the excentricity of the old jaws. Next you can make a small bar bored to tight fit with grub screw. Again mark jaw 1 for alignment so the jaw error is removed.

I think the problem with holding milling cutters in a 3 jaw is that most chucks have a bit of run out and the resultant eccentricity of the cutter causes it to become loose and pull into the cut. When I had a Zyto lathe I used a 1mt holder for 1/4" endmills with a set screw to hold the cutter in place. I got mine from Arrand. A quick look around the web suggests that our usual suppliers of far eastern goods don't do these in 1mt although 2 and 3 mt are readily available. Tubal Cain recommended making one's own from a drill arbour.

HTH (a bit)

Rod

If you are going to do a lot then it would be worth considering a collet chuck. ER20 chucks on an MT1 taper are available. For occasional use I would suggest using a four jaw chuck if you have one. You will get a better grip on the cutter and can clock it true.

Roger Woollett

Malcolm

I think John has it just right. A collet from ARC for less than a fiver will provide the speedy solution to your problem. You will though, in addition, need a draw bar to pull the collet - along with the cutter - into the mandrel. This can be made simply from a length of appropriate studding to fit into the collet, passed through the mandrel, then tightened by a nut on the outer end of the mandrel. When all is tightened up don't forget to add a locknut!

Norman

Edited By NJH on 25/07/2015 09:51:02

Hi Malcolm,

Whilst you can hold milling cutters in a 3/4 Jaw, personally I think it's a less than ideal solution.

The most versatile solution would be to fit an ER32 chuck (via a suitable back plate) and this will not only hold milling cutters very securely but will also let you hold work in a more accurate and repeatable manner than a 3 Jaw. I have a ER32 chuck mounted on my 2.5" lathe which will hold up to 20mm material, which is useful for 3/4" material.

I recently purchased an MT1 taper collet (for use as part of a simple back-stop) and if you will only mill occasionally, particularly using a certain size of cutter, then this is a simple and inexpensive solution. My 6mm MT1 collet cost £5, which with a simple draw-in bar (e.g. a length of threaded rod & some nuts) will do the job very well.

As I've also suggested, with a short length of bar held in the collet - you will also have the basis for a chuck back stop for setting work to length in your 3/4 Jaw. With some suitable discs mounted on the end of that rod, it will also help you to mount thin work pieces in the front of your 3/4 Jaw - for facing off or similar operations.

One other thing to mention about MT taper collets, is that (apart from being cheap to buy) they also very much reduce the 'overhang' of the milling cutter (e.g. bring it much nearer to the front bearing), which can be a real advantage if your lathe is old & a bit worn (as mine all are) as this will help to reduce chatter and generally improve the cutting quality when milling in your lathe.

Regards,

IanT

For anyone interested - I'll post more backstop details elsewhere.

IanT.

If your lathe is sufficiently stiff you can use a 3 jaw chuck but there are a few caveats with hobby lathes

Don't get a cutter any bigger than (I would say) 6mm

2 flute cutters are best because you can regrind them relatively easily when needed

Faster is not always better, a medium 300 rpm works well for me

Everything on your lathe must be well adjusted from the spindle to the lathe bed or your lathe will do weird things and make weird noises, you may even break something if a jam up occurs. A good cut makes a happy brrrrrrrrrr as it removes metal

Don't expect too much from an ML1 or 2, or 3 or 4, they are quite light machines

If things get too hot there is always the backgear option you can experiment with, this is especially useful with sticky metals like aluminium (it sticks to the cutter when things get too hot)

Edited By Ady1 on 25/07/2015 10:54:51

I have found it ok holding end mill cutters in the three jaw chuck on my old Drummond M-type. Although, I recently reground the jaw surfaces to get rid of "bellmouth" so it does grip quite well now.

Like the ML1 or 2, the M-type has a gap bed so if you put a cutter in the MT1 in the spindle, you have to hang the carriage over mid-air to introduce the job to the cutter. No such problem when using the three-jaw chuck to hold cutter.

I did try using a small cutter, about 8mm diam., with a MT1 taper on it but found the MT1 taper did not hold the cutter very firmly at all. Perhaps a draw bar screwed into a hold\e machined in the back end of the taper would help. I did not bother to find out. Instead, I just set up a 1" diameter cutter in the three jaw and it does a champion job. I am certain that you would have no trouble machining aluminium this way.

When I first had a Myford (1967) I did all my milling using a vertical slide and end/slot mills held in the three jaw chuck.this works well provided the three jaw is not too worn,if the chuck is old the jaws get strained and only grip at the back so the cutter can wobble in the jaws and will give problems, one advantage of milling with a three jaw chuck is that the mass of a chuck acts like a flywheel and smooths the cutting action, some industrial vertical mills had a flywheel on the spindle to improve the cutting action (fritz werner) at that time I was using a brand new Deckel at work and found no problems using the Myford at home and it produced good work .Bit of a comedown from a £5k machine to £120 one . At one time slippage of cutters in various holding system was always a problem,until the Clarkson system became available,in recent years collets have improved I think due to the use of plain shanked carbide cutters which could not easily be threaded.I have a collet system on my big turret mill,and use this for most work though if I am working on tough steel I still prefer the Clarkson holders as the cutter does not drag itself into the work.

All of my MT collets have threaded ends and are always used with drawbars. I wouldn't try to use any taper in the headstock without using a drawbar unless I was drilling.

Tapers without drawbars are essentially designed to be used where the action is to generally push them further into the taper, they cannot easily resist actions that tend to pull them out of the taper, such as when milling (or even when sometimes drilling thin materials).

Regards,

IanT

Just looking at my post above and of course all of my MT taper 'collets' require a drawbar, they wouldn't work otherwise, so it doesn't make too much sense re-reading it.

But I also have several other MT2 cutter 'holders' where the actual milling cutter is secured with a grub screw - as well as quite a bit of other miscellaneous MT based tooling (such as slitting saws arbors etc.) - all of which need to be held securely in the taper. Sorry if I wasn't very clear about what I had in mind at the time (I often manage to confuse myself).

IanT

Edited By IanT on 25/07/2015 13:22:06

Many thanks for all the advice. I was concerned about chatter if the tool is too far away from the support of the spindle. I think I will initially try it with the 3 jaw and start to rough out and move onto the 4 jaw if it looks like the cutter is pulling out. Truth is I'm being a bit optimistic and trying to make a motorcycle fork top yoke which is about 10" across and 4" wide. It is 25mm thick but has sections reduced to 1/4" between the main bosses that support the fork tubes. No doubt it is going to take some serious time but what is retirement for? If there is a jam I think the belts will just slip without causing too much damage, other than to the cutter.

I used the same lathe two years ago to turn 4 oak table legs from 4" square material and that was quite frightening at first since I had extended the bed to get 30" in and made a tool rest for the chisel from alloy section with an oak top to make the chisels slide easier. Once you have done a bit, confidence then begins to grow but then things can start to go wrong.

Mal