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Ady121/08/2023 09:39:26
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Posted by Howard Lewis on 21/08/2023 07:59:18:

Yes, I think that the British are good at "Thinking outside the box", but not as good at putting things into production as the US.

Howard

WW2 proved the superior ability of the US

It wasn't just the big stuff like 3 carriers on day 1 and 73 carriers by 1945, or the B29 program which was even bigger than the manhattan project and at the same time they sent shedloads of B17s, Liberators, Mustangs, shermans and merlin engines to Europe

They sent the USSR nearly all its trucks+ boots + food + clothing + whatever as well

The scope and quantity of US based outputs was mind boggling

James Alford21/08/2023 09:52:18
501 forum posts
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Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/08/2023 10:19:26:
Posted by James Alford on 20/08/2023 09:17:22:
Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 20/08/2023 08:52:11:

Regarding German manufacturers being efficient by making the work un-skilled, I have heard from source of a different side to that. I knew a sales rep for a large, German agricultural and veterinary products manufacturer. He told me the company preferred British staff for such roles for naturally having a lot more initiative and willingness to help solve the unusual problems and enquiries that sometimes occur in their customers' industries. The Germans, their own employers found, were fine with straightforward sales but too hide-bound by "procedures" and petty office politics to be good at anything straying from the rigid script.

He didn't say how any French or Italian sales staff there, scored on that aspect, influenced by their own national cultures.)

A few years ago, I had to do a comparative study of the British, German and Italian education systems, with a particular emphasis on employability. One thing that sticks in my memory is that, irrespective of the relative academic achievements, feedback from employers of the respective countries was that the British system produced workers with much higher levels of problem solving skills and independent thinking than either of the other two, a skill that employers valued.

In a different job, one of my clients was a Japanese professor of industrial psychology who used to consult with and lecture to major employers. His view was the same: that the British system encourages much more independent thought and questioning than the Japanese system, something of which he was greatly in favour.

James

...

Maybe there's some sort of comfort in that, but the all important financial numbers tell a different story!

Measured in Gross Domestic Product per working hour, British productivity has long been lower than that of similar economies. In the 2019 league table, Britain is 20th, with lower productivity than the USA, Canada and the rest of Europe. Not clear yet what Brexit has done for productivity, but so far leaving the EU has damaged rather than improve the UK economy.

Britain's relatively low productivity is despite considerable improvements in recent times. It was even worse in the good old days - UK productivity increased x2.5 between 1970 and 2015.

My advice: never believe your own propaganda! Faced with reality, it's unwise to take refuge in comfortable generalisations. Instead, get to work. Find and make immediate improvements and plan to make more in the future. Never assume that what worked well 50 years ago has any value in 2023!

Whenever Mr Foreigner does better than us, it's our job to get our act together and overtake him. Relying on comfy generalisations is unlikely to help.

Dave

I wouldn't dispute that at all. The ability to solve problems is useful, obviously, but does not necessarily result in greater efficiency, especially if the underlying systems and processes are robust, effective and reliable in the first place.

James.

SillyOldDuffer21/08/2023 10:47:19
10668 forum posts
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Posted by duncan webster on 20/08/2023 15:35:53:
Posted by Martin Kyte on 20/08/2023 11:04:27:
...

...

We had imposed on us a 'culture of continual change'. When I queried this asking whether they meant continual improvement the big chief insisted on 'change', so even if we couldn't think of a way of doing it better they insisted on change. Then of course we could employ lots of 'change managers' and hordes of HR people to run around in circles.

Don't get me started on change management! My experience echo's Duncan's.

After building up an enormous problem by taking the easy way out for decades, the board often wake up in the Last Chance Saloon with no practical way of untangling a complicated knot. Staff who don't see the accounts think everything is fine, and see no reason to change anything, or they've been suffering for years and have no faith management will ever operate in their interests. Under pressure to deliver existing commitments with what they have, middle managers barely cope with day-to-day problems and have no time for bigger issues, even if they were listened too. (Middle managers upset the board by bringing bad news and making strong technical objections to grand visions; best not to ask them anything!) Senior managers focus on the 'big picture', and rarely understand how the business works in detail. They don't know how to re-engineer a large organisation haemorrhaging money because its riddled with thousands of minor inefficiencies.

Not realising productivity is maintained by good-will and arrangements evolved over decades, the board launch an ill-judged untested change programme. It's probably naive, seriously under-resourced, poorly planned, and has no fall-back. It will be dumped on a stressed workforce in hope they can solve a mass of unidentified complicated organisational puzzles and make it work. The attempt will cause a lot of waste and failures when the board are having a very difficult time negotiating money with banks, share-holders, investors and government.

Doesn't always end badly but it's not unusual for entire organisations to be demolished and restarted from scratch. Rather than sort out shattered labour relations in a tiny Victorian factory full of obsolete equipment, it's easier to build a big new factory abroad, fill it with all the latest equipment, and recruit new staff locally who can be trained to implement current best practice without having to deal with the sins of the father. Or sell the brand-name, turn the factory into a car-park, and reinvest the money in bit-coin.

'Big picture', back in the UK, staff released from the thrall of a dying organisation, are re-employed on more productive work by an up-to-date employer, who isn't burdened by what went wrong before. Whilst it works on average, the process is unpleasant: people suffer when it happens to them, in terms of stress it's up there with life-threatening illness. I had many friends who worked for the GPO / BT when it transitioned from copper and Strowger to fibre and digital. Although redundancy was generous, no joke for middle-aged men to find themselves looking for new jobs in a market that didn't value electromechanical communications skills. Horrible.

Today, young people do not expect the job security that became common after 1945. Many of us had it easy!

Dave

Circlip21/08/2023 11:29:26
1723 forum posts

WW2 proved the superior ability of the US

Yep, a brief period in history when their manufacturing industry moved into gear AFTER 1941. Bit like the Brits inventing Football and Cricket, EVERY other nation seem to think them with the most goals/wickets wins. Thanks to the efforts of a Mr.Ford, I wonder how the residents of Detroit feel about their manufacturing efforts being thrashed by Japan/Korea and now China?

Innovation is the exploitation of invention.

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 21/08/2023 11:30:05

Vic21/08/2023 15:05:55
3453 forum posts
23 photos

Time seems to be an important factor for some folk: “I’ve been doing this for 20 years and never had a problem”. This also includes things like food and smoking etc.

A guy on another forum knackered a piece of machinery due to not reading the manual. Having pointed out his error to him he continued to abuse the machine even after it was repaired. For some folks pride is more important than knowledge it seems.

Howard Lewis22/08/2023 08:45:29
7227 forum posts
21 photos

Not everyone knows the maxim of "if all else fails, read the inmstructions"!

I know of a min lathe ruined by the user taking 3/8" cuts when the manual says that 0.010" for roughing.

WHAT did he expect from a 400 watt powered machine?

Personally, I think 0.010" is a bit cautious, but better safe than sorry.

Howard

Robert Atkinson 222/08/2023 21:20:25
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1891 forum posts
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There are two significant employment differences in the USA that probably improve their productivity.

They are very much Hire & Fire. Much less job security. demaond goes down, get rid of some staff.

They generally have much shorter holidays and less generous sick leave provisions. When I tell people in the USA how much leave and paid sick leave I get they are very surprised.

Robert.

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