Which Lathe???

If we didnt have passion and charisma in engineering, you wouldnt have motorcars like ferrari ,lamborghini, but big powerful square boxes with the sex appeal of last nights half eaten kebab and stale half lager left overs.

Form over fashion achieves the mission of getting the project completed , but does the end result want you to look at it and think.....Yeah i made that,,thats cool..... Or that will do it works.? Thats the definition of form over fashion.Both will achieve the same end goal, but one makes you smile.for a long time.

Fitness for purpose will do the job, but not necessarily please the eye. Land Rover Series, 1 and 2 spring to mind.

But a highly polished part will take a lot longer, and may not not work any better than the less refined version.

A Reliant Robin will take you from place to place less speedily and comfortably than a Rolls Royce Corniche, but you should get there.

A machine with a beautiful shiny paint job may not turn any better, (possibly even worse, if the labour has been spent on polishing rather than accuracy ) than a rough looking machine. People produce good work on hundred year old Drummonds, better than a shiny new "built down to rock bottom price" machine.

Ultimately, the criterion, surely, has to be accuracy rather than a high gloss finish in seventeen glorious colours.

Howard

A passing thought about how we now expect so many 'extras'. Before ww2 many hobby lathes came without dials on the feedscrews and people just managed without. And you still see old lathes on ebay without them. Yet once you have a lathe making a handwheel dial is a trivial exercise. It is strange that people didn't just make these and all the other upgrades themselves.

But shoddily built to a price lathes that look great and dont produce decent work are no good to anybody except the seller, this is what we all try and avoid.

I know im looking for the holy grail but im sure with a bit of effort the goal is achievable.

And doesnt look like a washing machine

Making accessories not only adds to the usefulness of the machine, but greatly expands one's knowledge and experience.

Without a micrometer dial, the old machinists were skilled at knowing how hard and how much to nudge the handle to take a cut.

My old turning instructor could work to within a few thous with a worn 6 inch rule, far better than i could as an inexperienced Apprentice armed with a depth mic!

Howard.

But can you name a no-good lathe being sold in the UK by a reputable supplier? (Internet purchasing from abroad is different.)

The Chinese lathes don't meet Paul's criteria. Although they're built to a price and assembled in a hurry, they don't win any beauty contests, and they can produce decent work. No one claims they are a good choice for a tool-room.

Well made lathes hold their settings better, have a smoother feel, and generally save time. They make life easier for the owner. But their motors aren't magically more powerful (though may be continuously rated for sweat-shops.) The dials might be more accurate, but dials aren't essential to accurate work. Low backlash is good, but backlash can be worked around. Thread precision depends on gear ratios, not how polished the change gears are. Being more rigid might allow heavier cuts, but again not essential to accuracy. And lathes all work in the same way: cutting is relative to a spinning axis, which means lathes as basic as a watchmakers turns can still produce accurate work.

In a blind test I think it would be impossible to tell the difference between sample rods turned on a random mix of Super 7s, Chinese, and other machines. Easier to detect the difference between experienced and inexperienced operators.

Knowing how long it took to make each item would be a better guide to the quality of the machine that made it: I'd expect the better lathes to be easier to drive and therefore more productive. But even that's dubious, - a fast Chinese machine with carbide inserts might well leave an Super 7 an HSS in the dust.

It comes back to what individuals want their machines for. Horses for courses...

Dave

PS Though not essential, I bought an extra-comfy chair for armchair engineering.

Dont get me wrong here, if i knew i could get a really good chinese lathe for 3k id buy it, one thats going to last me out and still be able to fix it in a few years time, thats great. What i dont want is the unobtanium part that breaks and kills the beast.Yes i know most parts can be made or fabricated,but i cant be arsed.If said part breaks, hello have you an unobtanium 123? yes is 20 pounds , in the post and youll receive it tomorrow. great!

One thing ididnt like about the warco was the three nuts to hold the chuck on, screw on chucks are far easier.

I bought a brand new Oxford mig welder last year, and it was messing around, i ended up speaking to guy on the production floor that built it, 2 minutes later, fixed. entirely my fault i add. and also built to my spec, unheard of for a mig welder.

I bought it as it was English and made in the uk. I also bought a Chinese Tig and Arc.If im honest the build quality on the Chinese stuff is superior.one has a 5 year warranty and the other a 3 year. The Oxford had a two year warranty.

I couldnt find a Chinese mig with the build format i wanted.The difference inside is that the english mig looks like it was built in a shed, and welds great which is what it is supposed to,do inside the chinese stuff its much better. However when the chinese stuff goes up the wall, youll be hard pressed to find somebody to mend it .Whereas any bright spark will mend the Mig. I think you have to be happy in the clothes you choose to wear, thats what makes the world go round.

As a by the by,ive recently returned to metalwork as a hobby and it astonishes me what jobs you can achieve with a small lathe.

Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 06/04/2020 14:45:26

**LINK** - what about something like that

I wouldn't care if we didn't. All they are is vanity possessions. They have no practical advantage over ordinary vehicles and represent a grotesque consumption of resources.

Not that I wanna get political or anyfing...

NO dont get political or harp on about waste of resources. Please. I came here to escape that.

Physically that seems to tick most of the boxes...Thanks Andrew. MT3 too. quite why that wasnt fitted to the super 7 i dont know?

Yeah, but no, but maybe! Broken teeth are a common problem on Myfords. It's because screw-on chucks tend to jamb over time and unwise attempts to get them off is likely to break something. Another major disadvantage is they come undone when the lathe is run in reverse. Though screw-on chucks give good service, I feel a fixing method with two faults can't be ideal.

Bolt on chucks cure both shortcomings. And being able to run a lathe safely in reverse is useful. There's no risk, for example, of crashing into the chuck when screw-thread cutting in reverse away from the headstock. I do all mine that way at high-speed.

Screw-on and bolt-on chucks are both inexpensive compromises rather than the best available. Camlock chucks can be reversed, don't jamb, and are super-quick to change. Shame about the price!

A good reason to be wary of bolt-ons is lack of room behind the chuck. People with big fingers hate them!

Dave

Broken teeth are a common problem on Myfords.

Super 7s have a spindle lock that enages at the rear of the spindle pulley to avoid this ? Seems to be more of an issue on earlier Boxfords that didn't have a spindle lock.

A "half way house" solution that offers the security of bolt-on,and almost as easy a change as a cam-lock (but without the expense) is the keyhole plate type - slacken the clamping nuts, then rotate the keyhole plate to release the chuck.

Nigel B

Edited By mgnbuk on 06/04/2020 16:58:40

Its funny when you discuss all these problems that people seem to find solutions to the problem, and show a shortcoming of a particular principle. Good chat this

What's the make that used a big screwed collar onto a short tapered register, with a C-spanner? I remember liking those when I was doing it for pay, but can't remember whose they were - Wyvern? Elliot? Boxford? I think maybe Colchester used it too?

What's the make that used a big screwed collar onto a short tapered register, with a C-spanner?

L00 ? Used on the Boxford VSL & some Harrisons (the 140 at my last employment had this type, but may have been the bigger L01).

Nigel B.

I have to admit to reluctance to switch chucks on my Warco. It's not so much the 3 fiddly nuts (and they are) but that I'm worried about losing the superb concentricity (best = appx. 0.0006" ) of the as-issued 3-jaw if I should get some tiny speck of anything trapped in the register.

Edited By Mick B1 on 06/04/2020 19:52:17

well i checked out this boxford, (link above) but cant see that it includes fixed or travelling steadies.. so i found these.

Linky And i thought steadies for the ML10 were expensive...Jeeees.

For those having problems holding the M6 nuts on mini lathes, DannyM2Z wrote a short article in MEW on making a widget to hold the nuts while they are removed or fitted. It is just a strip of thin steel, with two slits with tin snios, and a little bending.. Easy to scale up for larger nuts.

I made one and it works, so more searching for nuts dropped behind the chuck and into the swarf!

Howard

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Someone obviously has a sense of humour

They’e just nasty square-edged ‘functional’ things ... not elegant and curvaceous.

MichaelG.