A Question on Bench Blocks

They make good door stops too

Roy

ps. Compliments of the season to all even if a little late

The patent explains why the block is hollow - it's to trap knocked out pins. Good idea - I've spent many unhappy hours looking for small parts escaped on to my garage floor.

I don't use my block often. Nuts and bolts, clips, rivets and spot-welds are my main challenges. Apart from model engines, I suppose pins and dowels are more common in firearms and jewellery than the stuff I play with.

Ironic to find UK purchasers paying good money for offset hole blocks designed to facilitate dismantling Colt 1911 Automatic Pistols! Not many of them round here...

Dave

In Volume 100 of ME, on page 44-45, Duplex discusses the use of the Starrett Bench Block No. 129 as a useful tool for drilling cross-holes central in round bar. He shows a couple of sketches as to how to go about doing this.

To quote his text,

"The Starrett bench block No 129, illustrated in Fig 11, which is accurately machined and surface ground after hardening, could, without difficulty, be adapted to make a drilling jig of this pattern. The central hole is bored 5/8 in. in diameter and lies on the axis of the V-groove machined on the upper surface of the block. Moreover the recess in the underside of the base would provide ample space for housing the nut and washer fitted to the central clamp bolt".

Further, this was one of my last items to be made in the apprentice training school at Dowty Rotol Ltd. This was without doubt a copy of the Starrett item, as Starrett ones were in use in the Toolroom. I well remember the difficulty setting up to grind the Vee. Not only was it to be central with the central hole but also the other two holes in the Vee. If that was not hard enough the Vee had to be a certain depth as well, checked with a roller, slips and a clock.

The operation taking best part of a morning to achieve for an apprentice, but this put us in good stead for when we reached the shop floor.

While the larger holes on the flat surface could be used with a simple attachment to make shim washers, as on our blocks these holes are on a common radius. The two holes in the Vee were merely for drifting out pins in shaft assemblies. My block has served me well over the years, especially when I was a Toolmaker, and I would not be without it.

Regards

Gray,

I have made similar blocks, not for knocking out pins or for use on guns but as a guide when hand drilling or tapping holes. When held flat on a flat surface the drill bit or tap is guided perpendicular to the surface. Not as accurate as using a drill press but does a reasonable job for those less inportant holes. The guide blocks are not hollow and slightly shorter than the thread tap.

Paul.

I remember a college construction tutor telling me that on the change over from imperial to metric, in the UK, on surveying equipment, they went from 1/4" graduations to 10mm graduations. So the tolerances were increased.

How 'precise' this story is I don't know, maybe someone with construction/ surveyor knowledge could help out?

Ian

I note that Chronos are listing these at less than £15 for a hardened and ground version.

Brian

The only advantages I can see from the hollow inside are:

1. Cheaper to post

2. Handy for knocking rivets right through - as long as they are short enough to fall into the space.

But -

3. more expensive to make and, I expect, to harden (although only the surface needs it for most jobs).

And I can see the benefit of a square version ... ?

Regards, Tim

Clearly these blocks were originally designed as special purpose tooling that later became popular for general use more because it could be bought off the shelf rather than because it was best fitted for general use. As ever the common, standard, good enough one gets copied and widely used. Folk become used to exploiting its advantages and working around the disadvantages.

Seems to me that a blank in softer material with just the Vee and centre hole would be a "better" product as folk could add the hole sizes appropriate for their work. Anodised alloy should be fine. (Modified hockey puck style being just too far down market despite the advantages of a non marking surface.)

I'd probably add two small pilot holes in the centre of the V as starters for folk adding their own. Also seems sensible to make the lower 1/4 or so of the base square with two sides aligned to the Vee so folk could hold it in a vice if need be. Something I've been mimbling over for years but never quite had enough need, time or a suitable piece of material to roll up sleeves and make one.

Whether such would be a viable product as being something that folk would buy rather than look at and say "Must remember that if I need one." I know not. If the price was right maybe a tack on the bottom of the order thing.

Clive

The larger Starrett bench block had a hexagonal base to permit this (apologies if this has already been mentioned).

they must have seen your post and have whacked it up to £22.

Ah, missed the edit window.
The 'other' Chronos, the one that trades on ebay has it at the lower price.
block

**LINK**

I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.

.

From the photo in your link ... it would appear so.
[ if by ‘wonky’ you mean offset ]

MichaelG.

ega

Didn't know that about the Starrett version.

Really I was just speculating on what might work for a product with more general appeal at a lower price point. Over the years I've done plenty of jobs with quick bodge holding devices that would have been better tackled with a semi-sacrificial block with a small Vee and right size holes fitted by me. Although I've always managed, much of the time with small work not only has a conventional Vee block been oversize but also arranging matters not to cut into a pain.

Something like 3 for £15, decently finished with a square, hollow, base and properly aligned Vee and plain top ready to fit the hole sizes needed as jobs turn up is a viable price point for me. But most folk take a long time to come to terms with the concept of semi disposable mounting tools.

Why a 3 pack. 'cos folk are reluctant to mess with their one and only without a lot of thought.  Supposed to be a jus do it thing.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 26/12/2019 18:22:34

As the one in your link is from Chronos, it is likely to be from an Indian company which makes for SOBA, and if so, the smaller holes in the vee are likely to be centered.

The block which ARC used to supply two years ago, with the offset were made for the U.S. market by a Chinese maker against a specific drawing given to them by the American buyer, as explained before.

The Indian made one cost approximately 50% less to buy then the Chinese made one. I am unable to comment on quality or material comparison other than to say that S.O.D. seems to be okay with the SOBA one he has.. please see his post on first page of this thread: 24/12/2019 13:57:19

At £15.00 post paid including delivery and VAT - Chronos - eBay price, it seems good value for money, especially as the main cost is in dispatch for a product which weighs approximately 750 grams.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:09:59

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?

Neil

Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

.

You are not wrong, Neil

MichaelG.

.

Perhaps it’s just an optical illusion then, Ketan ... but they look offset to me:
.

.

[ Click for larger image ]

MichaelG.

One only has to look at the website of a major USA gun hobby website such as Brownells.com to see a variety of bench blocks made specifically for gunsmithing. **LINK**

The second one shown on the link appears in the photo to have offset holes.

I think Starrett supplies tools more for toolmakers and machinists than for gunsmiths, so no offsets on their block. Or maybe they do but just don't cater to the limited needs of the Colt 1911? Knowing Starrett, their block was possibly patented well before 1911 anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 26/12/2019 23:18:43

Clive Foster:

Here is the relevant page from Starrett's catalogue from 1976:

You will note that the longer vee is not at right angles to any pair of the flats.

I imagine that the old-style tailstock vee block was in practice semi-sacrificial.