Help choosing a Chinese lathe please

I was already then for a choice of 2 different ones and then the last post came in so i am after some advice again please, to start with i will be making push safetys for air rifles and will be using about 10mm round brass rods to make these out off which would be the the best one of all of these to start making them i will also be using stainless steel and a few other types of metal to make these safeties. Would it be best to go for the cj18a mini lathe package 2 which costs £699 with all the extras needed for now

Thank you

Bob, just playing devils advocate here but you say the Warco WM180 is a vastly better lathe but compared to what..? the old Conquest or the latest machines. It also sounds as if you dont consider the WM180 a mini lathe but thats what it is isnt it, its the same dimensions and similar spec to a number of machines which fall under the heading "Mini-Lathe". Looking at the pictures it looks pretty much like the other machines and unless I,m missing something I cant see any special features. You say that it is much better made but putting that to one side what does it do that makes it vastly better than the others, I,m genuinely interested to know.

Edited By Ron Laden on 03/09/2019 20:04:17

The WM180 is a much heavier lathe than the crop of mini lathes, every thing about the lathe is larger & heavier castings etc with a bed width of 100mm compared with 80mm mini lathe even though the centers etc is no bigger than the mini lathes. The WM180 would fit in between the mini lathe & a WM240 for example.

I don't want this to come over as 'knocking' the mini-lathe which I used for 10 years to very good effect. I did not actually buy my mini-lathe myself (the story has been recounted here before) but I do know for a fact that when it was bought in 2007 it was a fiver under £300, which was then as now a fantastic buy. However,, when i needed a faceplate it was £15 and my 4-jaw was a further £60. I grew to like my mini-lathe a lot and really came to enjoy getting good work out of it,...but it was 'quirky' and needed both considerable fettling and a lot of nursing in use. Quite a lot of it's bits and pieces were a touch clunky and it was obviously a cheap lathe made and sold down to a price.

the mini-lathe(s) have now got much more expensive with some useful improvements but it's still the same old friend underneath and prices have zoomed upwards. If you can get a good price and are prepared to become an enthusiast then, I would say; go for it! Me personally, i just wanted to move on and make clocks. Since this involved making up a lot of new kit I decided to do this on a much better lathe, and have never looked back!

Specifically, the WM180 is nearly twice the weight, has a bed twice the width, has taper bearings already fitted, has excellent tailstock (no spanner needed) which does not flex when using larger drill bits, much beefier slides with smoother action and thicker gibs, much more comfortable handwheels, better auto feed, steel cogs (fwiw), properly machined bed feet with only two fixing bolts (an advantage), properly designed toolpost which does not need alteration (unlike mini-lathe which needs 6mm off the top slide) to get optimum tool height, stable posture at all speeds, well designed safety interlocks (mini-lathe had chuck guard wired around spindle from new!!)........Then there's the two excellent chucks, steadies, decent tool kit (fwiw) decent paintwork that's easy to wipe clean, numerous plated parts......

..........Cons; Much heavier which can be a problem when you want to move it as it's just too heavy for me to move on my own but that's not often...still fiddly to remove chucks,.....won't run without headstock cover in place......no saddle slots (like mini-lathe)...............Warco 'swamp green' colour which I'm not thrilled by but, then again, I'm not too bothered.

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 21:55:21

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 22:12:51

Bob you need to be very careful when generalising using the term "Mini lathe" as they are not all the same.

Many in this thread have suggested the Sieg SC2, this has a completely different headstock to the generic 7x machines, comes with, lever tailstock, does not have the easily damaged plastic gears, infact no gears in the drive to spindle, Better brushless motor, etc. So quite a different beast from the minilathe, bit like comparing a Myford S7 with a 254.

As for double the bed width, the poster before quotes and Warco's site says the same 25% not 50%?

Even the current 7x mini lathes have addressed some of the issues you raise such as needing a spanner to lock tailstock, metal gears. Even the 180 has seen improvements since it was first available. So Neil do make sure you compare current models not what was available 10+ years ago with what is about now.

Yes I agree that the cost of steadies, chucks etc needs to be taken into account and I have mentioned this several times in the past but you could also be paying for things you don't need, I have not needed my traveling steady in the 10yrs I have had the 280 lathe and never needed one in almost 40yrs of owning a lathe

Edited By JasonB on 04/09/2019 08:47:26

Neil, which lathe would be best..? I think you have arrived at the point where you decide on a machine/package that suits your pocket and go for it. I,m sure that the machines you have considered and the ones that have been suggested will all perform well and cope with the parts you mention.

The only thing I would add is that if I was going for a new machine from whats currently available I would go for one with a direct drive brushless motor and my leaning would be towards a Sieg machine.

However at the end of the day the decision is yours so good luck with whichever machine you decide on.

Ron

Thank you all I am even more confused now. If you had £700 to spend on a lathe and accessories what would be the best deal to get please. I need something that I can bore and tap as Well and make parts for my rifle that are now obsolete

thank you

[This posting has been removed]

There are bargains to be had Neil... keep yer eye's peeled I picked up my 2 year old Chester DB7vs (Same as the WM180), with a metal Chester stand and tooling for £650. This was from Gumtree (albeit a 300 mile round trip to fetch it - with a friend)

Take your time as best you can - eBay, Gumtree and facebook for sale groups, ask questions, and don't jump straight at something. Take the usual care with sending funds.

I doubt you'll need to cut left hand threads, but be aware that a few of the mini lathes don't do this without modification.

Good luck

Neil, perhaps in the mass of posts you missed my advice which is for what you want to do there isn't much difference between any of the various machines in the Mini-lathe class. They will all turn brass and steel. Any of them will do the job.

I dithered for ages before buying a mini-lathe. It's very easy to get confused by details that probably don't matter much! As there isn't really an obvious leader or an obvious crock you won't go far wrong whatever you buy. I achieved very little by fretting and my time would have been better spent learning to use a lathe rather than confusing myself looking at sales literature.

Today I personally would favour a brushless machine like ArcEuro's Seig but it's a close run thing. There's nothing wrong with the Amadeal Bundle you identified: for a reasonable price you get all the bits needed to cut metal out-of-the box. It's an attractive starting package. I personally have no experience of Amadeal as a supplier but - if it helps - I don't recall any complaints about them on the forum either. If Amadeal take your fancy, go for it.

The one thing I'd advise against is buying very cheap or from an unknown ebay seller or direct from China. It's because this multiplies the risk of getting a poor example (they exist) coupled with an ineffective warranty. Buying from an established British vendor de-risks what happens if the lathe arrives damaged or is unmanageably crude.

By the by you will have spend some time practising to get the best out of the lathe. For example, you might have bad trouble turning stainless steel. It's not because the lathes are inferior but because many stainless steels make life difficult by work-hardening severely during cutting. The cure is to change the steel, not the lathe.

I recommend getting a good book too. Sparey's 'The Amateur Lathe' is the classic, but omits modern ideas like carbide inserts because they weren't available when the book was written. More up-to-date and aimed squarely at the Mini-lathe is Neil Wyatt's 'The Mini-lathe' as sold by Camden. Camden are worth exploring for other technical titles.

Don't be afraid to ask questions on the forum either. It's remarkably good at answers!

Dave

[This posting has been removed]

+1 for look out for a good second hand machine.

BUT before parting with money, check over the machine very carefully. If unsure, take someone with you who is experienced. You may well need help loading it into your car.

If you are a member of your local club, there will be someone prepared to help you.

If you are not a member, join! Advice and help will be available, and quite probably someone prepared to come and help you look at the lathe.

You will get no, or very little, support after a private sale. A dealer may cost you more, but if reputable should give some after sales support.

Sometimes you can find a little used, but well equipped machine, which has been found to be unsuited to the desired task, and so on the market.

HTH

Howard

Thank you everyone I think I have made my mind up and will be going down the new route the one with the full package as it should have a lot of what I need to start out and saves having a second hand one and something breaking

thank you for all the advice and I will be looking into the book that have been recommended as well and look for a local club that I can join to help me out

The Warco WM180/Chester DB7 is a decent lathe, the main difference to a standard mini-lathe is more metal in the lathe bed, which is reflected in the price. Whether this increased rigidity is material to you will largely depend on what you want to use the lathe for and how hard you intend to drive it.

The 70kg weight for the WM180 is gross weight, net weight is about 55kg.

A 300mm between centres SC3 mini lathe comes in at 37kg so the difference is about 40% more, still a fair bit heftier, but the WM180 is not twice as heavy!

The SC3-400 has greater capacity between centres than either SC3-300 or WM10V, at 40Kg net weight.

Neil

Edited to get my numbers right!

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 04/09/2019 19:10:28