Advice on Choosing A Mini Lathe

Confusion abounds! I understand a mini-lathe to be one of the many variants of the same basic design like this example from Warco. It's not a general term for 'any small lathe'.

Mini-lathes are modern design (about 1960), weigh about 35kg, speed in two ranges variable between 100 and 2500rpm, motor between 400W and 800W depending on model, they take a 90mm ( 3½" ) flange bolt-on chuck, and the bed has about 80x250mm usable space. Spindle bore 20mm (3MT), tailstock 2MT, tool-post takes up to 10mm tools. The Imperial version cuts metric threads and vice-versa.

Sherlines are not mini-lathes. Different design. The 8" version weighs about 10kg and has a 90W motor. The spindle bore is 10mm, and they don't screw-cut.

Though mini-lathes and Sherlines can do similar work, they're aimed at rather different markets. Sherline are good for small precision work, mini-lathes are more general-purpose, where the extra power and weight pay off. By analogy, if a Sherline was a scalpel, then a mini-lathe would be a bread-knife. Both are useful in their place.

Mini-lathes are a convenient way for beginners to get into metal turning. They're inexpensive, have all the basic features, and are big enough to tackle small jobs, whilst not being so massive as to require a crane! (I'd describe them as semi-portable, an easy two person lift.) I learnt a lot from mine, chiefly concluding it wasn't big enough for about 20% of what I wanted to do. Someone into O-Gauge railway models or smaller might well decide mini-lathes are too clumsy for delicate work. In my opinion what the tool is for is more important than who made it. Whether or not a mini-lathe takes WW collets is irrelevant in my workshop because I don't need them. Cowells take them, though they're a lot more expensive than a Sherline...

Zeb's says of mini-lathes: 'I know for certain the runout is much higher and the plastic gears on a lot of them wear out prematurely and are noisier.' Not my experience. Run-out measured at the spindle taper was undetectable with a 0.01mm DTI, the plastic gears didn't wear out, and they're much quieter than steel ones! Wouldn't describe the mini-lathe as a paragon though! Crudely finished and obviously made down to a price. Based on negative web comment I expected mine would need a lot of work before doing anything useful. Wrong! It worked out the box and only needed minor fettling.

Stuart asked: are the Chinese mini-lathes the way to go, or the non Chinese variants like Sherline. My answer: Horses for courses. It depends on what the lathe is for.

Dave

Edit: I hate smileys!!!

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 14/04/2021 08:25:22

My experience is somewhat different. The runout and overall accuracy is generally very good and limited by how well the lathe is set up, almost irregardless of manufacture, although better quality bearings can improve things further if needed.

The plastic gears are distinctly quieter than most metal gears IME. A propensity to break under the sort of abuse dished out by beginners (e.g. crashing tool into chuck) is more of an issue than wear. A mixed blessing as in some cases such breakage prevents more serious damage. Replacement metal gears are available, although many brushless machines don't have/need gears in the headstock.

As for change gears, the nylon ones are virtually silent and wear/breakage are almost unknown.

The Sherlines are great lathes, marketed on precision rather than muscle, but teh 1.75" centre height makes them more comparable to Cowells, Teag/Peatol and some Unimat machines..

A 16" bed mini lathe has capacity more comparable to a Super 7, aside from not having a gap bed.

I think they are intended for very different applications.

Neil

Ouch. I did read your earlier redirect and posited that people might be looking at a range of options of which the mini lathes are just one option.

But I'll resist thinking on paper again, and avoid smileys

For what it’s worth [ i.e. probably nothing ]:

The Pultra 17/50 and 17/70 were, in their time, known as Micro Lathes.

... and I have a watchmaker’s 6mm Geneva pattern Lorch ‘gap bed’ 

Arbitrary categories are as counter-productive in Lathe descriptions as they are in Record Shops !

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/04/2021 18:44:56

I stand corrected.

It is a fact of life that we - all of us - put things into categories. The most pressing reason we do this is WORDS. Without categories, words wouldn't work. So it is just something we have to cope with.

Cheers, Tim

Word of the day: Arbitrary

.

Above all, do remember that you are buying a hobby machine, built down to a price.

A £600 machine will do the job, but not to the same level of precision, durability, reliability, or "Quality feel" as a Toolroom lathe of the same size, costing 30 or 40 times as much.

Before the flak starts flying; I have one!

Howard

Neil, that you for initiating an interesting blog.

I can see and agree with the aim of a single category discussion such as this, yet also agree with those (I was one of them) who sought to define the edges of the 'Chinese family mini-lathe' by exploring the options around that are in many ways similar, yet still different. Indeed this must be of great help to those considering the purchase of a mini-lathe.

As a member for only a few months I'm delighted at the range of discussions on this site, and the lack of propensity to close down discussions some commonly seen much social media.

I will just leave with one contentious question, if smileys are edited out, why put the function in the site?

Stuart

And read before sending! - discussion so commonly seen on much social media. You probably got that meaning!

Stuart

There is a problem with the site's software that can put unwanted smileys where they are not wanted for example if someone gives a dimension in metric and then adds the imperial conversion in brackets afterwards then the " and the ) think it is the code for a smiley. This does not show until the post is submitted which means going back to edit the post which is what Dave did not like.

Jason,

All too true re unwanted smileys where they were not intended. I also feel they are much overused but occasionally they can indicate that a comment in 'tongue in cheek' But hey were getting too far off topic.

As a learner of engineering I would welcome similar focussed discussions led by someone with knowledge such as Neil or Dave (perhaps yourself). Can I suggest a couple of topics?

1. Cutting metal accurately - seen some discussions but bringing this together with the types of machines or tools, their strengths and weaknesses etc would be a great help.

2. Milling Bits - the plethora of flute types, end shapes, materials, indexed etc would also be an interesting discussion with members contributing their hard won experiences.

Perhaps these already exist but there is so much useful information here that to search it all would take incredible time. I've tried but start to get engrossed in every other blog!

Thanks

Stuart

Jason, another comment on Mini Lathes; when I chose a Sherline i read a very useful comment that seems to be wise: You can have accuracy, price or functions but rarely all 3. ie if you want accuracy it will cost you more, or you lose functionality.

Alas - Sherlines may be a surgical instrument but only in the hands of someone who can use them accurately, for a learner such as me they are no more accurate than hand file. but I enjoy practicing.

Stuart

I sympathise because I started without a clear idea of what I wanted a lathe for!

As an ex-software engineer I'm trained to insist on Formal Requirements rather than go with whatever solutions the customer offers. Most users tune into stuff they like they look of rather than do a hard-work analysis of actual need! The ignorance is bliss approach works well with consumer items like teapots, shoes, and motor cars, but failing to define requirements fails as soon as the answer has to address any kind of speciality. Machine tools are a case in point.

Best to define what the lathe is for before choosing one if you can. Much easier to advise when a newcomer asks:

• I want to make clocks; what sort of lathe should I buy? Or,
• I want to repair traction engines, what sort of lathe do I need?

Knowing the requirement is only the start. It sets a baseline against which compromises will be made. Nasty constraints like money, space, availability, and domestic authority!

Not knowing a newcomers limitations or purpose makes it hard to answer Sherline vs Mini-lathe type questions in isolation. If the questioner works on model railways under the stairs, a Sherline is a good bet, but it isn't a motor-bike mending bruiser! And maybe Sherline isn't good enough either, a Cowells is needed.

Best general lathe advice is to get the biggest you can afford: it's because big machines can tackle large work whilst still being able to do small stuff. But small work on a big lathe isn't comfortable, which is why some own more than one.

A mini-lathe is the biggest machine I consider sensible in a domestic setting: they'll sit on a dining table or spare bedroom and are fairly quiet unless the job chatters. But a big mini-lathe makes far more mess than a Sherline, and a weakling like me wouldn't want to lift one on my own. (No problem for two weaklings!) Ideally a mini-lathe goes in a dedicated workshop, and anything bigger definitely should. And the workshop should be dry and comfortable with adequate power and good lighting, plus a workbench, vice and all the rest. The budget has to tackle that too, maybe over several years.

Practically, the Mini-lathe, next size up Far-Eastern, Myfords and similar are all about the right size and capability for a small dedicated workshop doing mid-range work.

There are always exceptions. If a newcomer doesn't quite know what the lathe is for, I suggest the answer is to buy general purpose and experiment. With hindsight I dithered too long before buying a mini-lathe and getting stuck in. Using one taught me far more than reading about them; I found many books and opinions only made sense after using one in anger. The mini-lathe is a good "don't know what I want" learner machine: not too small and has screw-cutting and the other basics. Availability and relatively low cost new are big advantages for a beginner. Doesn't mean mini-lathes are perfect. Far from it. Although they do the job, they are quite rough, likely to annoy chaps brought up on smooth professional gear.

To me buying the best you can afford and making it last a life-time is an out-moded idea. Dates to a time when there was a sharp divide between good and bad tools. Not so today: we are surrounded by medium grade tools, fairly decent, but not intended to last. Made to be used and replaced, not cherished. So, I bought a mini-lathe fully expecting to replace it. 3 years later I changed up because it was too small, not because it was junk. At the time, it was convenient to buy the biggest Chinese lathe that could be squeezed into my workshop with a milling machine. Buying new eliminated all the bother and risk associated with second-hand, which back then I didn't have time for. I got a WM280 fully expecting to replace it later with an ex-industrial machine, but in practice it does all I need, and I haven't bothered.

Not many of these considerations involve make or country of origin! To my mind it's a mistake to eliminate technical options based on secondary considerations like brand too soon. Though reasonable for hobbyists to spend their money as they want, at least try to recognise the difference between logic and emotion. Although supposed to be cold evidence based thinkers, several studies have shown purchasing decisions made by grizzled engineers are positively influenced by scantily clad young ladies draped over the equipment. This is true even after the fools have loudly denounced the girlies as an obvious attempt to influence them! We are all human. The important thing is to enjoy the hobby.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/04/2021 11:45:22

There's a very effective Google search box on the home page.

If that doesn't come up with the answer, then start a thread asking the question under the right topic, a clear thread title helps get germane answers.

Neil

Dave, a beautiful smiley!

I actually worked as a corporate analysts so tend to over analyse everything, from buying a new lathe to quotes on smileys . What I didn't do is work or train as an engineer so I soak up everything I can find - hence the desire for more single category topics (Neil I will go hunting and will start a thread on mill bits).

The Sherline works for me because it is small and sort of tidy. I knew I would never build a railway engine but instead manufacture small components for radio controlled scale model yachts. Most boat modellers use wood with limited brass components that can be fashioned by hand. I've already found the Sherline mill invaluable for making things from metal, that were metal in reality. But my scale is small.

Where I am wrong is knowing that I would never build a railway engine, s the fun of engineering grows I'm getting tempted towards models that require more engineering. Initially steam powered boats look attractive but who knows. I now see that never, is not always never.

so I fully agree that buying a machine that will last for ever is not always the best answer, and just maybe a mini-lathe would have been better suited to my needs.

Now, how do I go about getting that domestic authority that you mention, for a lathe/mill upgrade? I've had a larger (insulated, heated and comfortable) shed approved so what to put in it?

Regards

Stuart

How do the small vintage machines like Dummonds etc fit into this? I don't like the cheap toy look and feel of Chinese mini lathes for the hundreds they cost, I would rather put the money into restoring and upgrading a nice bit of vintage cast iron.

A Drummond is not a mini-lathe. Mini-lathes are several orders of magnitude smaller. Best start a separate thread if you want to go down that road. Or search the many past threads on the topic. And be aware that restoring a lathe is not a beginner project.

For years, I hankerd after a lathe, and eventually bought a "Previously owned" Myford ML7.

Because it was lathe that I knew was used by lots of model engineers, and in some industrial tool;rooms.

I had NO idea of the use to which the lathe would be put. other than being confident that it would be a very useful machine.

As I started to use it, I found that more and more jobs could be done on it. But some exposed, in my view limitations, so as I retired I bought a larger Taiwanese lathe, which was even more versatile.

As a bit of an extravagance, I bought, secondhand, a mini lathe. It does not see a lot of use, but there are times that it is used for jobs to prevent breaking down a set up on the gig 'un.. On it's own, it would be an extremely useful machine.

Yes, some Far Eastern lathes need a bit of fine tuning to get the best out of them, but so will a worn old British, American or German machine!.

The vital thing is "Will it do what is required of it"?

If the answer is "Yes", it is fit for purpose.

Especially when yo recall that "Many a good tune can be played on an old fiddle"

A skilled operator can produce good work off an old machine where a novice may fail so to do on a new machine.

Howard

I have a Drummond Roundbed Lathe that was a basket case when I bought it, but worked just enough to maintain my interest until bought a mini lathe.

The saddle was cracked on the Drummond but useable, however I have found a replacement - but it has taken 5 years!! The Drummond lacks many features of the mini lathe but as a piece of 'Old Iron' as you describe it it does have a nicer and more satisfying feel - but to turn metal I want features, not feel!

An older lathe may not have a high enough spindle speed to turn small items efficiently using carbide tooling - and my Drummond, without backgear, does not go slow enough to turn larger cast iron pieces either!

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 07/05/2022 09:31:22