Magnetic base LED machine light - WARNING MAY BE UNSAFE

The two lamps I ordered have arrived and a sticker has been placed on the outer package stating :-

'Goods not fulfilling the conditions laid down in Articles 28 and 29 of the Treaty on the functioning of the European Union' What is this all about?

All I know is that they work and seem to be just right for machine lighting. I will change the 2 pin plug for a fused 13 amp one.

I think it means that you are liable to pay Customs Duty on the goods. As duty is usually collected on delivery you're probably in the clear. Fingers crossed!

It means the EU wants to grab the money from Customs Duty for an import from outside the EU. But UK customs allows £25 worth of goods without having to pay any duty, as it costs more to collect than is due. So how decide which way to vote on June 23rd as the EU would like to collect the money, no matter what it costs.

Malcolm

Don't forget that this cuts both ways. British manufacturers are disadvantaged whenever Europeans fail to pay duty on imports from outside the union.

Note also that British manufacturing will not be protected by the Union if we leave it. Instead European industry will be competing head-on with ours.

The risk is that British industry unfettered by European rules will get duffed up by German, French and Italian industry as soon as they also are unfettered by European rules.

I expect Neil will ban us now!

I'd better get in before he does!

The value was only aroud £11 so that must be why the postie just gave me the package.

Text deleted so as to not cause trouble.

Edited By modeng2000 on 26/05/2016 17:11:50

FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS
Article 28
(ex Article 23 TEC)
1. The Union shall comprise a customs union which shall cover all trade in goods and which shall
involve the prohibition between Member States of customs duties on imports and exports and of all
charges having equivalent effect, and the adoption of a common customs tariff in their relations with third countries.
2. The provisions of Article 30 and of Chapter 3 of this Title shall apply to products originating
in Member States and to products coming from third countries which are in free circulation in
Member States.

Article 29
Products coming from a third country shall be considered to be in free circulation in a Member State
if the import formalities have been complied with and any customs duties or charges having
equivalent effect which are payable have been levied in that Member State, and if they have not
benefited from a total or partial drawback of such duties or charges.

Basically the EU prohibits member states imposing charges when importing and exporting goods between them.

The sticker means the goods are from outside the EU so if the HMRC want to tax them, they are free to do so.

Article 30 means that once you have paid those import taxes, then no further taxes can be imposed as a result of exporting them to another EU country.

It is not about the EU collecting taxes, it is about preventing taxes on goods moving between EU countries... this can be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective (e.g. whether you're buying or selling!)

Now please don't drift into pro or anti EU.

Neil

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 17:20:37

Hi nodeng2000

I read the text just before you deleted it. And I had just the perfect riposte too! You're quite right though : this isn't the place to cause trouble. In a way it's a shame - what other people think is important and interesting to me, and I sometimes change my mind.

Cheers,

Dave

Going back to the lamp that was in the original post, mine showed up a few days ago, in Canada, with what appeared to be a standard 2-pin North American flat-blade plug. However, when plugged into an outlet, it promptly fell right back out.

Measurements showed that the blades are significantly thinner and narrower than typical local plugs. Since it's hard to believe that the Chinese manufacturers don't have access to proper plugs I wondered whether the plug used is part of an adapter series wherein the appropriate region's plug is attached to this 2-pin, depending on the location of the buyer - and the basic 2-pin adapter being considered "close enough" for North American use (it isn't).

So how are these lamps delivered in the UK? Do they come with a UK-type plug that attaches to the adapter; or a hard-wired UK plug; or simply bare leads for a wire-yourself plug (do you guys still do that?).

The lamp came with an adapter that accepted the 2 pin plug and converted to a standard UK 13 amp plug.

Sorry I beat you to it Dave!

John

I ordered 2 but only got one adapter. Being a cheapskate I thought I'd cut off the 2 pin and fit a UK 3 pin plug. Note the adapter doesn't seem to have a fuse, so this might be a good idea anyway. The actual copper is very small indeed. I twisted it together with a short length of thicker flex to give the screws something to bite on. No doubt someone will have a better way, I rejected solder as that relaxes under screw connections. I've no doubt the copper is sufficient, must be very low current.

No one seems to have mentioned that the ebay unit has a mains lead running right up to the magnetic base which is therefore exposed to the machinist's environment of hot swarf, cutting tools and sharp-edged lumps of metal. The cable's sheathing is very 'minimal' whereas most machine tool mains leads have, or should have, substantial sheathing.

On the other hand, the Jansjo is powered by the SMPS located at the wall socket with the lamp supply lead at about (IIRC) 4V. Putting aside the possible failures within the SMPS, it seems to me that the Jansjo-style with 'remote' SMPS is the safer option for the machinist's environment.

Thanks for the info about the plug. I pointed out to the seller that it didn't properly fit a 115V NA Outlet and his response was:

" thanks for your message and you can change the plug leg angle, then it will be tight. "

In other words "bend the prongs a bit" !

Fitting a new plug is a bit problematic here (Canada) since our devices always come with a moulded plug. You can get manually-wired plugs but they are relatively uncommon and designed for much heavier wiring. I don't think the strain-relief would work well (if at all) on a wire of this size. And the tininess of the conductors would be an issue too.

It's probably better to home-brew a splice to an existing moulded cord. I've done that before using a small Hammond plastic component box which can then be filled with RTV or epoxy.

Thought I'd just write a postscript to this.

Since I wasn't really happy that the mains plug didn't really fit the local system and didn't want to use the vendor's recommendation of "bending the pins" to compensate, I decided to take mine apart to see if I could perhaps modify it to run from a lower voltage wall-wart or USB.

The picture shows the pcb after I removed the leads going to the LED. There is (apparently) no isolation from the mains supply. I had hoped that the orange-brown component that looks like an old-fashioned capacitor (or even older-fashioned condenser) was a miniature encapsulated transformer. However it only has two leads and appears to be .... a capacitor (it's marking is blurred beyond legibility).

With the lack of mains isolation, I don't think I'd want to run this device in a workshop environment.

Before I removed the LED leads I measured the DC voltage across them at 40V. Not a particularly convenient voltage for a wall-wart and I could see no easy way to cut/jumper the PCB in the LED head for a lower voltage.

[ Incidentally the two leads going from the mains PCB to the LED head were Red and Black respectively with Black going to the pad marked " + " and Red to the pad marked " - ". The connections were similarly reversed at the LED board so it did actually work. ]

.

I think Bandersnatch has now said it, quite eloquently.

MichaelG.

That circuit is a pretty standard low current step down circuit. I have got two of these lamps. One on my mill and one on my wife's overlocker. As an electrician I have no problem using them in the workshop or anywhere else for that matter.

Bruce

Seem to recognise the components and basic layout in the photo as the standard years ago (30) inside the PIR sensors fitted to external Halogen Light units?

Regards Ian.

In that case you should know that lighting and other mains equipment is not permitted within any area that could be recognised as "Zone 0" (ie a "wet" area frequented by users) unless it is IP67 rated or better. Where you have metal dust, swarf and coolant present and the lamp is accessible to the user, basic intelligence (or training, failing that?) would suggest you should know to treat that as Zone 0 - particularly if you claim to be a "competent person". You appear to be recommending others to follow your own practices. Really?

Hence the previous suggestions that at the very least, RCDs / MCBOs would be a minimum sensible precaution when installing questionable mains equipment like this in a workshop. You will notice that there is no protective ground connection.

The IKEA lamps are an even better solution, as the entire lamp unit is SELV (inherently safe, if you like). The power unit itself needs to be mounted away from splash and swarf - but as it plugs into a 13A socket, you should have that covered already - outside of any Part P notifiable areas.

Murray

Murray

They are marketed as Sewing machine lights -

I was commenting on the circuit which is quite safe and used in many devices.

In NZ our regs require new circuits and in the case of my home all outlet circuits to be RCD protected. I do not use coolant on my mill (yet) and if I did I would be changing my lighting source. The base of the light in question is quite well sealed (unless someone has pulled it apart).

There is no protective ground because it is double insulated.

Bruce

Not that well sealed around the strain relief. It's basically ' bunged up ' and wouldn't allow gobs of metal to get in but I'm quite sure liquid could enter.

I don't quite get the "double insulated". The only thing isolating the input AC from the lamp head itself is the circuit board between traces and/or the components. Isn't that single insulated? With a non-polarised plug to boot.

As a non-electrician I'll pass in my shop.

Double insulated means that metal parts have layers of separation between them and live components

From wikipedia (so it must be right )

"The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing. This is usually achieved at least in part by having two layers of insulating material surrounding live parts or by using reinforced insulation."

Bruce