pulleys for x1 mill

Derek,

You are probably right. The short key to keep the motor gear in place may be too small. This can result in the plastic around it melting instead of the gear shattering in some cases, if that gear is overloaded.

It is not a case of the gear getting soggy around the motor shaft due to heat from the motor as fizzy suggests.. Unless ofcourse fizzy drives his X1 very hard, for which it is not designed for!

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/11/2012 10:31:55

Hi Ian,

This is not the case with the gears used in the X1/SX1/L. At least 8 out of the 10 times replacement gears have been supplied, they have been due to overload, by the buyers own admission. The reason ARC knows this is because we ask the buyers - 'what happened', instead of making presumptions!

This is also a popular misconception with mini-lathes!!.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/11/2012 10:41:12

Amazing really.

Lets take this logically, there must have been 100's of thousands of these samll machines made. be they the mill or lathe variant.

Why are we not seeing 100's of thousands of complaints ? Truth is the vast majority use them within the envolope they were designed and market for.

However you will always get some tight sod who want's a Rolls Royce for Lada funds.

These cheap Chinese machines get the most press, basically because they are in abundance, cheap and it's because of this that 7 / 10 people who own a mill or lathe could not afford to do so without these imports.

Now the flat earth society will say wait and buy good British iron. sorry won't happen, there isn't enough to go round, especially on mills and was it that good anyway ? most being built on clapped out WWII machinery.

Once this happens anyway the market will increase prices, a Tom Senior sold on Ebay 2 weeks ago for £3,380, Conny sewers were selling at £7,500 plus.

Makes your £350 mill or lathe look to be a bargain, especially when you factor in spares are still available.

John S.

Hi Gray,

Dont worry. I didnt mis-understand or take your comments in the wrong way.

Your comments are based on sound principals. I just didnt want your comments to be used by someone in the wrong way.

Ketan.

I for one don't buy into this "it's designed as a fail safe" crap, I would gladly bet that there have been no engineering calculations done as to the load required to break the gears! In fact ,I doubt very much that ANY of these Chinese home machines have had any structural / load calcs done on them, and I am a very satisfied owner of a Chinese lathe "Warco GH750" and a Chinese Mill "Chester Lux" but until I see proof of said calcs I'll stick with my take.

Regards,

Raymond.

A really interesting thread this!

I have got a "problem" with my S1X now also an "L" since I bought the large table.

After running for a while, the mill bit seems to loose power. Then motor runs as usual, but the bit slows down and even stops if I am to enthusiastic. The motor does not like it, but still runs.

To me this feels lika a gear loose on its axle/shaft, but which one? Reading about the overly short key on the motor axle it might be the problem so that the axle actually spins inside the gear. When the whole "gearbox" cools down I get som grip again.

The reason for this may be a few dig ins that accidently stopped the spindle, but at the time did not seem to harm anything - until now of course.

greatful for any tips on what it may be as it is difficult to see through the metal plate while running.

Thanks in advance

/Peter

You can choose to believe what ever you want to Raymond. You are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am. I am just stating the fail safe facts as I see them, based on many years of sales of SX1/L machines, and real feedback from customers when they break gears, which makes me qualified to make the comments which I am. I dont really have to make you buy into anything and the factory certainly does not have to prove anything to you.

Ketan at ARC.

Peter,

Download the dismantling and reassemly guide for the SX1L from ARCs website. Dismantle the head and check the gears. Simple

Hi folks,

Just for clarity, my mill isan X2 - one of the first batch from ARC, I think.

As well as making a belt modification, I fitted angular contact ball bearings as a trial for Ketan. I'm 100% satisfied with them. These are the sort of bearings you would expect to find in a heavy-duty precision spindle, with the advantage that they can be pre-loaded. pre-load should stop any side load from the belt mis-aligning the bearings. I also think that a poly-v should require less tension.

I have made three changes:

1. Increased rigidity by scraping the pillar bracket to a better fit and adding a bracing plate. (this would not apply to the 'new' Super X2)
2. Changing to belt drive
3. Fitting angular contact bearings

I now have a machine that gives me a much better finish, but i fear this tempts me to work it harder. I can't say which of the changes made the biggest difference, but the belt drive/bearings say a noticeable improvement over just improving rigidity. The mill is now much quieter as well.

I don't know if angular contact bearings could be fitted to the X1?

I have written this up for a potential MEW article, but I need to take some more pictures before sending it to David.

Neil

VC.

Sorry about the belated reply - never enough time to do the necessary.

I hope you don't get troubles with the electronics of your mill. I got involved with mine maybe 10 years ago now, when I bought a Sieg type lathe and mill from a German importer (I lived Germany then). At first I had little work for the miller, but I managed to burn out the lathe control circuit in a matter of days. I eventually replaced the output drivers (I think this may be what you mean when you refer to the devices bolted to a heatsink). However, they went 'phut' sp many times that I became thoroughly sick of it. I also found out that the mill circuit was almost identical (there were differences in speed compensation circuitry, but they were both built on identical PCBs, with some detail changes - identical output stages.

There have been multiple threads on this issue, and the clearest thing which has emerged from them is that there seems to be several different versions of the controller/motor combination. Predominantly there seems to be what I call the 'old' version, which has two parallel output drivers on heatsinks, and a small daughterboard attached to the main PCB. Someone in this forum posted a circuit diagram and photos of this some time time ago, but beware, there are differences between the circuit and actual PCBs. I obtained a later controller from a German source, using a single out put stage - much better design, and built with SMD components. This was very good, but had no adjustments, and I found that it would not start from zero RPM - the (mill) motor ran at quite RPM when the start button was pressed.

I have also seen other controller variants fitted to these machines. I guess Ketan Swali could also supply some info on these controllers - I believe his company supplies replacements, and I know he has commented on this in the past.

I eventually got sick of the whole story - I bought the machines to do work, not to have to spend my time repairing or modifying them, so I built a foldback current-limited controller. This simply monitors the current taken by the motor, and when it begins to rise sharply (if the motor is overloaded or stalled), it immediatelyreduces current supplied to zero. I have never had a controller problem since this was done.

Whilst I agree to some extent with Ketans statement that these are lightweight machines. If you overload them then you can expect problems, but I would point out that the electronics (and sometimes the gears) apparently fail in normal use - look back through old threads in this and other forums. I believe there is a requirement that articles sold for public consumption should be 'fit for purpose', and it would seem that some variants of these machines are not fit for purpose for one reason or another. I think this is demonstrated by the number of posts asking for help to fix a problem, or the number of websites offering 'updates' to workaround the problem. Whether the machine costs 350 pounds or 3500 pounds (and I wish I had money like that to spare for my hobbies!), while I agree that it is impossible to allow for machine abuse, it should still do what it is sold for.

What Ketan actually said was "The plastic gears are a fail safe ....".

They may be a de facto fail-safe without necessarily being designed as such. I lean towards the view that the use of plastic gears is more related to cost than mechanical design considerations. Equally though, I think Ketan is correct in that they do, in fact, act as a fail-safe.

In this case the gears are reasonably simple to replace but that doesn't apply to some other machines where they have used plastic gears .... which reinforces my belief that they were used primarily for cost rather than mechanical reasons.

Edited By Sid Herbage on 10/11/2012 18:51:23

Utter crap, plastic gears on milling machines or lathes are nasty, cheap and not very cheerful, better off with metal gears and a shear pin some where in the drive train [NO,not in the gear box] I am not saying that these machines are bad but plastic gears? come on! a little more thought into the drive train design and choice of materials could save a lot of these types of problems. but here's the rub,the said machines would become slightly more expensive so managers at the factory says we stick with the crap plastic and let the poor sods pay for replacements. [even when they have been known to break under normal [for that type of machines] cutting loads. even replacing a fuse would be prefrerable to having to replace crappy plastic gears. and Mr Swali you are correct that the factory "does not have to prove anything to me" as I would never buy a milling machine or lathe with gears like those in question.

Regards,

Raymond.

Neil,

The spindle bearings in the X1/SX1 are thin section = slim ball bearings. Angular contact ball bearings as suitable replacements would be difficult to find.

Still, glad to read about your X2 upgrades.

Ketan.

Wotsit,

I agree with most of what you say, even though I believe that you may be referring to the X2 mill.

There are control boards with and without electric overload protection...built to a price..depending on distributors demands. Fit for purpose?....agreed...and depending on your point of view...depending on what you want to spend, in the main, most of these machines are fit for purpose.

Now, if 'fit for purpose' is to be labeled to machines..perhaps we should also consider if the user is 'fit for purpose'?. I ask this question with the greatest of respect. This is not an arguement with you. It is a general statement. When this comment of 'fit for purpose' is made, why should it only apply to the machine and not the user?

Ketan at ARC.

Sid,

You may be aware that ARC sells metal gears for the old X2 and the mini-lathe. Personally, I think it is a bad idea, especially in mini-lathes and mini-mills with the circuit boards which do not have an overload protection. I am aware that it increases the risk of damage/fault developing on such circuit boards. But then, if customers want to damage their machines, who am I to stand in their way?

For the X1/SX1/SX1L, I have been offered metal gears. I simply refuse to sell them. The split second risk of damaging the circuit board are simply too high for me to consider selling them. People can really believe what they want to.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/11/2012 19:20:06

Slightly more expensive - LOL. Utter crap. Yup - what ever Mr.Anderson.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/11/2012 19:18:39

Just a small correction:

The Super X2 with belt drive with brushless motor from Axminster has a tilting column. ARC sells the the Super X2P which is a belt drive with brushless motor, with a thicker approx.10mm box section fixed column.

So Mr.Anderson, this machine is 'slightly' more expensive then the SX1L....ONLY about £240.00 more currently...so would this meet your requirements better? 

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/11/2012 19:34:15

As far as the drive train goes then, if it had NO plastic gears then yes it would be a improvement.

I agree with Ketan when he says "we should consider if the user is fit for purpose". I attend a project called "Men In Sheds" (google it) and have become the unofficial maintainance man for the wood work machines. Most of the blokes there have never used any kind of machine before ( i suspect this is true of many starting this hobbie of ours) and you would cry if you saw the kind of abuse they get. So while the plastic gears may be fitted on cost grounds, they will also act as a kind of mechanical fuse. My X1 lasted 8-9 years before a much too short key ( 3mm long in a 10mm key slot ) stripped the inside of the gear.

Cheers Derek.

Sakai Machine Tools first little lathe, the ML1, was a beauty.

... and Toyo 5x4 cameras are very well respected.

MichaelG.

.

P.S.

Any Camera enthusiasts might like to read the final paragraph on this page.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/11/2012 21:30:09

P.P.S.

Product History [linked from the Japanese website]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/11/2012 21:40:55