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C3 Purchased
| Ian S C | 07/09/2010 10:14:16 |
 7468 forum posts 230 photos | Hi Andrew, think it was the Canadians that put a tail wheel on the DH 82. Used to service the occasional Pawnee topdressing aircraft. They are now used as glider tugs here in NZ. Topdressing has gone turboprop.
If you get it right you can make a good parting tool for a small lathe with the carbide tip of an old circular saw blade, the tips also make great ordenary tools. Ian S C |
| Tigermoth | 07/09/2010 14:19:40 |
 33 forum posts | Hi Andrew
My Tiger Moth is 1/4 scale and the Pawnee is about 1/5 scale. I also have a 1/4 scale Jungmeister and a 1/6 scale Mark 9 Spitfire.All very good flyers.
The Pawnee dipped a wheel into a rabbit scrape and the hub collapsed. Hopefully when I make up aluminium hubs they should withstand the rigours of my arrivals. The Pawnee is a very nice slow flyer, even slower than the Moth.
Hi Ian
The only problem for me with the saw blade tooth would be welding it to a support. However that may be possible via a friend. . . . .
Bob |
| Andrew Johnston | 07/09/2010 20:16:53 |
 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Ian, Hmmm, didn't know that, but I hope the Canadians fitted brakes too! No brakes and a tailwheel would be rather exciting. One would certainly need to be nifty on the rudder pedals. I have seen one Tiger Moth with brakes and a tailwheel; just didn't look right. I wouldn't swear to it but I think most Pawnees in the UK are also used as glider tugs. The one I'm sitting in, in the avatar, is a glider tug. If there is any crop spraying left in the UK it's very low key now. There was a flurry of activity in the 70's and early 80's but then it died equally quickly. Our fields tend to be quite small, are odd shapes and are mixed up with other crops, livestock, houses etc. A few cases of dogs, cats, kids, washing and gardens being sprayed brought a lot of pressure to bear. I did once fly a Pawnee with spray gear fitted, G-BILL, originally owned by Bill Bowker, who was one of crop spraying pioneers in the UK. Nice aeroplane, 260hp, very smooth and two blade prop so good climb rate. The only snag was it being on a Public Transport C of A, so the paperwork took longer than the flying! Regards, Andrew |
| wotsit | 07/09/2010 20:42:40 |
| 188 forum posts 1 photos | Hi, Bob W (Tigermoth), Interesting to read about your new C3 - despite all that has been written about the 'chinamen', there are a lot of people out there who use them. If you are like many owners, you will find out after a time that there are some shortcomings with the C3, depending on the supplier - I know I made loads of modifications and additions to mine. If you are interested, there is tons of info on mods, improvements etc on the web (Google 7 x 12 lathe) - the two sites below have lots of useful info, and might give you a few ideas. The best improvement I made was (I think), replacing the headstock shaft with better (taper-roller) bearings, but I understand ArcEuroTrade does that anyway with their machines. Another good mod was to put ballbearings in the cross-slide/saddle drive, and also to modify the drive-nut under the cross-slide to take out back-lash - this gets steadily worse on some models, as the nut wears. Keith |
| Andrew Johnston | 07/09/2010 20:43:37 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Tigermoth, Wow, big models! I got as far as model gliders and some very simple RC power planes back in the days of 27MHz, before I reverted back to flying full size gliders and then full size power. I've never flown a Jungmeister, or a Spitfire come to that, although it's on my list, along with a P51D and a fast military jet. All I need is a lottery win. Regards, Andrew |
| Andrew Johnston | 07/09/2010 20:45:15 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Ian, Forgot to say, one place I'd really like to fly a glider is the NZ Southern Alps; may be one year. Regards, Andrew |
| Tigermoth | 07/09/2010 21:16:45 |
33 forum posts | Right, this posting has moved in another direction altogether!
I've seen a full-size Pawnee acting as a glider tug and thought it had a rustic charm. My model has a scale outline but the colour scheme is very definitely non-scale. It can be flown very slowly, probably the slowest flying aircraft which I own.
The Moth is in the colours of a 1947 Royal Navy trainer and has a tail skid which is very effective on grass but gets worn away running on concrete or tarmac. From descriptions I've read ti's flying characteristics are very similar to the full size, easy to fly but harder to fly well.
The Jungmeister is in Swiss colours and is very different to the Moth. It has sharper control responses and does excellent flick manoevres.
The Spitfire flies beautifully and looks really good on a low pass with the wheels up.Too easy to nose over on landing though.
I remember the 27 MHz days but since then 35 MHz has come (and been superceded) and in the last few years technology has moved on apace to embrace the mobile phone frequency of 2.4 GHz with the added bonus of computer assistance.
I have seen Frank Hoose's website but not the gadgetbuilder one. I'll have a look after this posting.
Bob |
| Tigermoth | 07/09/2010 21:17:51 |
33 forum posts | I'm a twit. I have the gadgetbuilder website in my favourites
Bob |
| Andrew Johnston | 08/09/2010 11:51:18 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Bob, That's the beauty of the internet, you never know what is going to pop up! The Pawnee is a good glider tug, if rather thirsty. We reckon about a (UK) gallon per thousand feet. On the hand it's built like a brick outhouse and copes very well with wet and muddy airfields in the winter. The Tiger Moth is definitely difficult to fly accurately, particularly in turns. Also spins well. Although it wasn't a requirement to be taught full spins when I did my PPL the CFI's viewpoint was 'this aircraft will spin, therefore you will demonstrate three turns of a spin and recovery in each direction'. But then he was 'old school' having learnt on Tiger Moths at Cambridge during the war. I assume that the 2.4GHz RC sets are part of the ISM band? How do you get on with interference problems? Regards, Andrew |
| Tigermoth | 08/09/2010 16:23:18 |
33 forum posts | Hi Andrew
My Moth spins both ways and recovers easily, loops nicely after a dive, rolling is poor (first half to inverted OK, hang on for second half with throttle closed), turns definitely need coordinated rudder/aileron control, stall turns both ways with ease.
No problems with interference at all on 2.4 GHz - receivers are bound to each transmitter.
Bob |
| Stub Mandrel | 08/09/2010 20:58:06 |
 4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles | Sorry to hijack, but I recall my struggles with my first R/C powered job. It kept turing into the ground. I wanted my Dad (the aged P.) to see it, he saw me barely recover from my first turn and said pull back on the elevator as you turn (no ailerons) - it was like he'd worked magic! Neil |
| John Olsen | 08/09/2010 22:44:15 |
| 1294 forum posts 108 photos 1 articles | I grew up in Masterton (NZ) in the heydey of the use of Tigermoths for topdressing. As kids we pretty much thought all aeroplanes were Tigermoths, they were always flying over. The glider guys there were using the Tigermoth as a tow plane too, although I was there one day when they first tried using a Pawnee. The difference in the rate of climb was quite noticable, to say the least. Hood Aerodrome was used by the Americans for a squadron of Mustangs during the war, but they were long gone by the time I was born. It is still a favorite place for the glider guys since you can pick up the Norwester wave and fly up and down the length of the country. regards John |
| Ian S C | 09/09/2010 01:36:31 |
7468 forum posts 230 photos | DH 82 A , I'v made a narrow parting tool by jus cutting a radial section , in my case about 5/8" wide out of the saw blade in cluding the tip in the right place, took about five miniuts, touched the tip on the green grit wheel to make it square (the tips are alternatly angled left and right). The Pawnees here were 235hp Lycoming, but aerial top dressing as its known in NZ started after WW2 with surplus Tigermoths witha hopper In the front cockpit holding 55olb of super phosphate.At one stage in the 1950s there were over 180 Tigers doing ag work until better AC took over. Exciting times, lots of accidents, lot of the pilots were ex war time, ie Johnny Checketts Flew Spitfires in BOB, and many others, some who were still flying at 70+yrs.Ian S C |
| Andrew Johnston | 09/09/2010 21:16:24 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Bob, Sounds like the Tiger Moth model flies very nicely. Do you have the anti spin stakes fitted? I don't think they were ever fitted to RAF Tigers, but a lot of civilian ones had them. The Tiger Moth (G-ANOO) I flew from Thurleigh (near Bedford) was used primarily as a glider tug. Climb rate was a bit limited, but we did have the advantage of a 10500 foot runway. Most of the Pawnees used as glider tugs in the UK are 235hp too. Nice smooth flat 6 cylinder engine. Actually I've been flying our Pawnee today, did three tows and then watched the day degenerate into heavy showers. Still, another 25 minutes in the logbook. I have flown a 260hp Pawnee, and I've seen, and had a tow behind, a 160hp Pawnee. I think the 160hp Pawnee has a shorter nose. Despite that you still look under the cowling and wonder where the engine is. Vis-a-vis the RC interference I was curious as to how you got on with all the other users of the ISM bands. I assumed that the receivers are coded (PCM?) to the transmitters, but how do they cope with external interference? Regards, Andrew |
| Tigermoth | 09/09/2010 21:31:03 |
33 forum posts | My moth does have the anti-spin strakes fitted - I fitted them before I settled on the final colour scheme. I can't remember whether the original had them or not.
The stall is non-existent with my Moth - it slows up, dips it's nose and starts flying immediately again!
Not sure what the 2.4 GHz coding is but this link might have some pointers:
Interesting to see the range of engine power available in the Pawnee. I powered mine with a 15 cc 4 stroke engine which is probably at the top end of the power suitable for my size of model (~ 7 feet span). It gave me problems getting the C of G far enough back and I had to resort to ballast in the tail, something which is uncommon in RC models! Broke a wheel hub landing (very slowly) and one wheel ran into a rabbit scrape and the hub collapsed - cheap junk!
I've now started turning a set of alloy hubs because the wheels supplied had an excellent set of tyres. Half a hub almost made.
Hey Stub, do you still fly Rc?
Bob |
| Ian S C | 10/09/2010 09:24:20 |
7468 forum posts 230 photos | Andrew, the wallpaper on my computer is a picture I took earlyer this year of a P-51D ex RNZAF flying at a local air show, one of our local Piper Cub pilots/ farmers turned 70 and his wife and son shouted him a flight(its a twin seat), cost $NZ2000 for about 1/2hr, so near enough to 1000 pounds. Don't think he came down to earth for a week, and the PA-18 will never be the same again.Ian S C |
| Ian S C | 10/09/2010 11:54:27 |
7468 forum posts 230 photos | Andrew & Tigermoth, can't find your profiles, so I posted a photo in the albums that might be of interest, This one's 12" : 1 ft and at the time of this photo pushing toward 400mph out of a dive from 5000ft. Ian S C |
| Tigermoth | 10/09/2010 15:57:29 |
33 forum posts | Some nice photos there Ian. I haven't posted photos on this forum yet - haven't built anything of real relevance to model engineering yet.
Have a look at http://www.buchanaeromodellers.co.uk/ and you'll see some of our local models.
I liked your hot air engingine and am glad to see that your workshop is as tidy as mine!
Bob |
| Andrew Johnston | 10/09/2010 20:22:18 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Ian, Your gentle reminder that I don't have a profile has shamed me into writing one; as will be apparent I'm not an expert modeller. Regards, Andrew |
| Andrew Johnston | 10/09/2010 23:24:57 |
7061 forum posts 719 photos | Hi Bob, Wow, you're Tiger Moth certainly has all the details! I hope it has working slats too. Ours (G-ANOO) also had a sticky impulse mag. If it didn't start in a couple of pulls, you opened the cowling, tapped the mag, which freed up the impulse mechanism, and then it would usually start. I did have a look at your aeromodelling website; interesting. I haven't been to the exact area, but for a number of years I visited Aboyne (due west of Aberdeen) with various gliders to experience the wave. It's where I first achieved my Diamond height. Twice in one week, 21000 feet on the Tuesday and 22000 feet on the Thursday. Thanks also for the RC link. It all sounds pretty sophisticated these days. Certainly spread spectrum techniques should be pretty immune to multipath interference problems and what I assume will be block codes for forward error correction should limit the effects of burst interference. Regards, Andrew |
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