Right to Repair

Peter, I don't think you are a Luddite by any manner or means and there are lot more of us 'old 'uns' about than we may think. For instance, I have a Sunday lunchtime drinking partner who was a Chief Engineer in the Merchant Navy, is a Chartered Engineer and finished his working life as a Marine Surveyor for Lloyds of London, specialising in pressure vessels and boilers. There is no way anyone could say that this man is other than well qualified, highly competent and very able but he is exactly the same as us when it comes to new technology, in fact he was very disappointed to learn this week that his trusty old Nokia 3210 will not work later this year when the 3G signal is turned off. There seems to be some people who can adapt to change with alacrity and others who can't after they have passed a certain milestone in their lives. I must be in the latter category.

Edited By Chris Crew on 31/01/2022 11:10:22

A suggestion only, but the location of the fuseboxes might have changed due to the car (presumably) being RHD?

Would looking in the mirror image locations be a start?

Having said that electronics rather than fuses may be used in which case you are on your own. Having a diagram in a manual is only of use if the manual is updated when the car is. The manual for the monitor I am looking at as I type this talks about different connectors on the back to those on the monitor - and monitor and manual arrived in the same box.

Way back in the 1970's I was on assignment to Germany, scheduled to return to UK at the end of 1976. I discovered a quirk in the tax laws that allowed me to purchase a car in Germany, free of tax, as long as I exported it within 12 months of purchase, and tax free in the UK as long as I'd owned it for 12 or more months. I ordered a Volvo 245 estate direct from the factory in Gothenburg and collected it from the factory at the end of 1975. It had special number plates (I think they were called Zoll plates) to indicate it was tax free in Germany. It turned out to be the worst car I ever owned.

The problems began with the extras I ordered - a rev counter, special folding seats in the rear cargo area, self levelling rear shock absorbers, electric windows, and a factory maintenance manual. The revs shown on the rev counter didn't match with the gearing and road speeds (never found out why), the seat belt anchors for the special rear seats were mounted upside down, and the maintenance manual was for the wrong car.

Driving home from north Germany to Boeblingen I noticed a strange wobble on the steering wheel when changing direction at speed. The local Volvo dealer in Boeblingen fixed the seat belt anchors, but couldn't cure the steering wobble, so they called in the area experts, who also failed. Volvo then decided to change the steering mechanism, which helped, but not entirely. The special rear shock absorbers then failed and were replaced.

In May we decided to go on a touring holiday to Austria. I was concerned about the car's reliability so the local Volvo agent loaned me another car for several days while they checked everything. It was very hot that summer and the electric windows failed in the closed position (very uncomfortable with no aircon), and then we noticed that the front Zoll plate was missing. Since this would have caused problems with customs we had to retrace our journey until we found it. The windows were fixed at the next Volvo dealer we found and we then continued along the Autobahn to Vienna. After an hour or so on the Autobahn my wife complained that she felt sick, so we stopped at the next service station where she dashed of to the wash rooms. On her return we walked to the car and I noticed a large pool of oil under it. Because of the excessive number of faults I had been given a special phone number to Volvo head office, which I then called. Volvo sent a special team to collect the car and take us all to Linz, where they paid for dinner and rooms for the night and replaced the gearbox. On the way home from Vienna all four shock absorbers failed. Back in Boeblingen it became apparent that the bodywork was rusting so Volvo paid the nearby Mercedes factory to respray it.

At he end of the year, with my assignment finishing, I was offered either a new car to take back to UK, or a refund. Since they wouldn't pay the UK tax on a car I wouldn't have owned for 12 months I decided to accept a refund.

Apart from the faults, the car was rather good, but I'm not sure if I'd buy another.

I heard from the service agent today. They have had the car since last Wednesday. Apparently they have found the fault which has turned out to be a dead short across an LED in a rear light cluster which can't be replaced like an old-fashioned filament lamp and the cluster has to be completely replaced. Also, they said the car's software needs updating. The price for the cluster and the software is £286 plus fitting, plus the time it took to find the fault, plus VAT so I guess it will finally be around £500/600. How different from just replacing a bulb for a few pence on the old cars?

Am fortunate I have had for daily transport a 1990 Renault 5 1.4l for 18 years and can do most repairs crawling about doing welding repairs is getting a bit of a pain at nearly 80.

There are no computers on it thank goodness computers when everything is ok are amazing but what a pain if not.

Just a change from ordinary vehicles on the 12th and 13th of February at Elvington Airfield there is a show of Record breaking motorcycles, cars, drag racing machines I understand Guy Martin who will be pilot of Alex McFazdine Gem turbine two wheel streamliner is going.

Steam jet bike and fastest lady UK bike rider are their plus some of the machines from my racing era.

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That is simply immoral for just a shorted 'bulb'. Utterly ridiculous - if it was me I would write a strong (but polite) letter to Volvo, copied to your garage.

Next time, perhaps a scrap yard or an online second hand car parts company to buy a replacement cluster and swap it yourself?

The LED light cluster in our bedroom ceiling fan stopped working and looking at the board, a couple of the ICs that drove the LEDs had literally burned out. The company wanted £45 + postage for a new cluster. Err, "Negative, Ghost Rider" - I unsoldered the mains socket from the LED board and made up a lead to feed the mains output to a standard bulb holder and fitted a small LED bulb. This sits 'loose' but perfectly safely within the frosted glass lamp cover and works perfectly. Cost? zero, except a bit of heat shrink sleeving I had 'in stock', and about 30mins of my time, which is free anyway. (Not suggesting this cure for your car !!).

Edited By John Doe 2 on 08/02/2022 09:40:04

John D. I couldn't agree more with your sentiments but unfortunately I do not have the skills or equipment to have diagnosed the fault in the first place. As I said earlier I could not even find two of the fuse boxes on this vehicle, not that it would have done me any good in the event if I had found them, so I had to bite the bullet and send the car to the service agent. As an aside, I found out yesterday that modern cars don't even have a dipstick. I might be the 'dipstick' for not knowing this, but the oil warning indication came up on the wife's car so I told her to buy some oil from Halfords while she was out shopping, and of course it had to be 'digital' oil at £18 a litre. When I investigated via YouTube I found the car had a digital dipstick and you read the oil level on the dash display. It showed the oil level at maximum and when she started the engine again the warning had disappeared, so eighteen-quid wasted. You live and learn but sadly I appear to be learning very slowly and expensively these days.

Edited By Chris Crew on 08/02/2022 11:37:28

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Nothing new here. I was about 12 when I heard this 19th Century joke. Man calls a plumber to fix a leaking tap. Plumber arrives, turns off the stop-cock, removes the tap top and replaces the leather washer. Job done, plumber presents the bill: new washer one farthing, labour 10 guineas. Customer explodes, but plumber explains the 10 guineas covers the cost of knowing what's wrong and how to fix it.

Not sure the assumption changing filament light bulb is easier than fixing a LED either: In the past I've had awful fun and games with faulty wiring looms, earth faults, and damaged bulb holders. If it's not a simple blown bulb, we is in the poo. And even a simple failed bulb can be a PITA. When one blew in the instrument panel of my Citroen BX it proved unbelievably difficult to get at!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 08/02/2022 12:02:48

I understand what is being said about classic and older cars and why they hold an attraction for some people but, once you have had a modern car for all the additional expense, I would not like to return to the old days. I had a 'Moggy Thou' once in my younger days and I can't remember it being all that reliable or even comfortable, the heater was pathetic and the seats hurt my back. I have had about every model of car, from 1959 onward, that usually appear on display at a traction engine rally and have done just about every type of repair on them from re-ringing, crankshaft regrinds and gearbox rebuilds, you name it and I still have all the tools as proof.

Just like in life, it is very easy to go up in the world but very hard to come back down. It's the same with a newer car with a reasonable spec. Would I really want to do without remote locking, electric windows, air conditioning, automatic transmission, power steering, digital radio, voice operated sat-nav and the plethora of improvements and conveniences that have appeared over the years? I my case I think not. I am far too old now to be freezing cold or uncomfortable when driving or to be crawling about at the weekend covered in oil setting tappets and points or changing a head gasket as in my younger days. For me those days are over and the only dread I have now is being forced into an electric car!

Edited By Chris Crew on 08/02/2022 12:40:17

Doing the math on Tax, Insurance, Maintenance, MOT, Tyres and Fuel divided by the miles (not many these days) - simply using a Taxi is starting to look very attractive!

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My dad and brother-in-law owned Volvo 245s and had no such problems. At the time Volvo were considered unusually reliable compared with most UK cars.

I wonder why Gary was so unlucky - several unrelated faults and all four shock absorbers failed, which is unusual?

Perhaps a mix of bad luck and poor process discipline. Maybe several iffy batch made parts from different suppliers came together on a rushed production run, where both assembly and inspection were slapdash. Hurrying to meet a stupid production target with everyone demob happy on the last shift before a holiday might do it.

Anyone have experience of 1980's car production going wrong?

Dave

I quite agree that modern cars are much better than those of say 50 years ago, but having said that I do find that there things that are just not necessary, things that are plain stupid, whilst things that could & should be done are not. Take my present car, Toyota Avensis Estate new in 2013. We have electric front windows, and manual rear windows. Why? Also, the front passenger window can be locked, or rather disconnected, from the drivers side. Now ok, maybe a good safety feature, but it doesn't apply to the rear non-electric windows. Daft or what? There is a light that comes on when the door opens, but the ignition key is in darkness. Might I suggest that lighting the ignition key might be of more use than lighting the access. And so on, and so on. In fact, there are functions on this car that I have never explored unless I have accidently activated them, eg there is something, I forget what now, that can be done to the so-called electronic handbrake switch but which results in either a red or an amber light on the dashboard console. That caused me no end of worry until I found it in the inch thick manual. In short, modern cars are too clever for their own good.

Unfortunately, we are going to be somewhat stuck in a few years time. The car is 8 years old and was bought specifically because a) it was petrol; b) it was an estate & c) it was capable of towing our caravan. It has performed admirably over the last 8 years returning good tyre life, very little gone wrong, and achieving an overall mpg of 38. Which compares very favourably with the two previous diesel cars which only managed 42 & 45mpg respectively. Unfortunately, we bought this caravan, new, four years ago, ie just before all the present restrictions were mooted. So now we have a new(ish) caravan and an old(ish) car, And as far as I can see, the only car that Toyota now do which may be capable of towing my caravan is the Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. (I haven't as yet looked elsewhere.) But frankly, the future for us, as caravaners is beginning to look somewhat bleak. And I suspect that caravan manufacturers and caravan site owners will also be somewhat worried about their future.

In terms of repair work, over the years, well over 50 I might add, I have done a lot of my own servicing and repair work. But then, cars of yesterday were indeed much simpler although I do believe the rot set in with our Montego which developed a rather nasty fault in which it would start misfiring for no obvious reason, the ecu was temporarily changed, plugs checked, distributor checked and nothing found. Ultimately, an AA patrolman said "Well, all there is is ...", and he reeled off all the usual suspects, but included one which I knew nothing about - the crankshaft TDC sensor. And that was it, broken wiring to something which had never been seen on earlier vehicles.

Yes, I do think private motoring is likely to be restricted in the future, but it is likely that I won't be here to see it. Not so my children and grandchildren, including my daughter with a broken back and her adapted car.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Similar story here, two many old cars and far too many miles in landrovers. I am now about to upgrade to the replacement for my Yetti, after 10 very happy years of ownership.

Only real problem was when it went into limp mode 100 miles from home, I thought it was the turbo, but my tame man put the laptop to it and said new ht lead required, result. Apparently the system cuts fuel off if a lead fails.

I dragged our holidays about for years, but we have now moved on to cottages, advantages all round and we got too old for Landrovers and they got too old for us.

Only changing for something that works the gears for us, shows me when I am going to run into something when reversing cos I can't do an owl impression these days, lets ME see the satnav as well, warms our bottoms, knocks the cruise off when I am going to run into something infront, won't roll backward on hills, tells me if the tyres need blowing up, the list is endless. Oh and nearly forgot, buttons to adjust the seat and mirrors when we change driver. She doesnt bother to change the mirrors? Boss can't drive unless she is so high and can see the front bumper and so far forward so that she can use her upper body? to help steer, I can't get in the car for lack of headroom when she has been in. What I have never understood is that there was no seat adjustment in the landrover and we managed ok?

I am staying with the new technology and my old co pilot

Edited By Pete White on 08/02/2022 14:46:08

Take care accessing the rear port on your horse for diagnostic purposes - generally best carried out from behind the side of a wall unless you wish to go sailing.

pgk

Bmw wanted £4000 for a new headlight for my 5 series. Ok it’s the fancy led job which is very good when it’s working and by far the best headlights I have ever had on a car. But £4000. Thank god I was able to get a used one. Mind you that cost £450. Manufacturers just rob you senseless these days.

Well, it's a good job modern cars are (probably) more reliable than they used to be. In the 'good old days', I could buy official workshop manuals, and do all mechanical and electrical servicing and repairs, even if it meant having to make special tools occasionally. That stopped nearly 20 years ago. Since then, exponentially increasing complexity and the inclusion of ever more bullshit features (seemingly more to do with 'connectivity' than the real world task of getting from place to place), has made DIY work effectively impossible, except for the simplest jobs. It's now almost essential to be able to read and decipher diagnostic codes output by the vehicle, because no human knows what's going on when things don't work correctly.

OK, bite the bullet and get the dealer to do the work. Two problems: spares are ridiculously expensive and the grease monkeys are incompetent. Plan B: buy new and swap out at the end of the warranty. The incompetence problem remains. I have made three warranty claims in the last decade (not bad going, perhaps), and on each occasion the dealer fouled up. Plan C: lease the thing - it's then someone else's problem (apart from the inconvenience, aggravation and out-of-pocket expenses when the gremlins get to work). But that's very expensive.

Gone are the days of being able to keep a fairly elderly vehicle on the road for peanuts. When 'professionally'-done repairs may cost as much as the vehicle is worth, it's game over, isn't it? Perhaps that's when Plan D - theft - is instituted.

I dread the time when we have to source a replacement vehicle.

the only dread I have now is being forced into an electric car!

Why "dread" ?

Apart from the initial cost, they are just a car with a different powertrain. I test drove an MG 5 EV last weekend & the most suprising thing about was how "normal" it felt to drive for the most part. Main difference was the adjustable regenerative braking, but other than having to get used to that I didn't feel it would take much getting used to at all. Range has improved over intial offerings, with the "small" battery version of the "5" being rated at over 200 miles - more in town.

My brother has been running a Nissan Leaf for 5 years now & it has proven to be a reliable, cheap to run car that he likes very much. At 6 years old (he bought it as an ex-demonstrator) the battery still shows 98% of it's original capacity. That he also runs a large Volvo diesel estate to tow his caravan touches on the point Peter Shaw mentions - currently electric cars struggle with towing. But that is changing too - the Caravan & Camping Club magazine had a towing test for a Skoda all electric car in the latest issue. Admittedly less towing capacity (1 tonne ) than an equivalent ICE car of similar size & the range drops (160 miles as tested) when towing, but a sign that EVs are evolving to meet user's requirements. I read (briefly) that Audi had recently done a towing test in conjunction with caravan maker Buerstner where the caravan had been fitted with additional batteries to assist powering the car via an umbilical lead & covered 250 miles on a charge through the Alps.

Whether mere mortals aan afford such technology is another matter, but ICE cars are getting more expensive & EVs are getting more capable and cheaper. The MG 5 EV I test drove costs about the same as a Skoda Octavia estate with a 1 litre petrol engine & DSG gearbox - and that is after the recent change to less favorable terms for the Government EV grant, No so long ago that the EV would have been 30% (or more) more expensive than a comparable ICE version.

I wonder if "right to repair" will be embraced by car makers ? When the CVT gearbox in the Avensis I had started making "bearing" noises at around 80K miles, Toyota were happy to inform me that there were no spare parts available & the only option was a new gearbox (no exchange option ) @ £4500 + fitting. I elected to move it on & put the money towards it's replacement - which was not a Toyota.

Nigel B.