Buying online delivery problems.

If you are concerned about parcels arriving with contamination then the logical answer is to deal with that contamination. It's surface not airborne contamination so a pair of marigold gloves protects you enough while you sterilize the virus. Simplest option is to stick the parcel in a bowel of bleach solution. The following link is a quick reliable one I found that states 0.1% sodium hypochlorite kills the virus in under a minute. Open the parcel in the bowl or bucket if really worried.

Link

My wife and I are in self isolation being classed as vulnerable. We have established a routine for handling post. Anything that is plastic wrapped such as ME magazine are removed from wrapping with rubber gloved hands, wrapping disposed, contents quarantined for at least 24 hours. Rubber gloved hands washed, gloves removed.

I understand that paper and cardboard can be contagious for up to 24 hours, metals and plastic surfaces up to 72 hours.

Might not meet medical standards but every bit helps hopefully.

Keep safe guys.

Bill D.

I just had a message from ebay saying all parcels at an Argos store that is closed will be sent back to sender using the same courier as it was delivered with. Once the parcel is back with the sender a full refund will be given.

Steve.

Lets be clear Antiseptic alone is known to be ineffective for this virus. The virus has a coating of greasy protein which is cut through by soap. Then the core (essentially a tiny bit of something like DNA I believe) needs disrupting.

As I understand it Bleach will do this at reasonable concentration, as will Antiviral cleaner (which has degreasant). Not sure about disinfectant but this probably works if it incorporates a grease cutting agent. Disinfectant and bleach however are not suitable for use on skin - they are formulated as strong surface cleaners.

I have been told on good authority that normal household antibacterial cleaners/surface wipes simply do no kill the virus and that medicated soap is no better and is probably not as good as normal soap for killing the virus. (Its medication makes it kinder on sensitive skin not more powerful).

Advice given by Government is therefore correct in saying wash with soap and hot water, throughly and often!

A piece on TV this morning looked at Hand Sanitiser which seemed to work quite well but soap was better if used properly.

We use Isopropyl Alchahol (IPA) as a weak degreaser so it is logical that at decent concentrations it will have an effect - this being the active ingredient in sanitiser gels.It does not however incorporate the other active ingredients incorporated in antiviral products.

Also look at the virus lifespan on different surfaces - for some it is 24 hours, for plastic it is said to be over 72 hours, so safest to leave at least 4 days if unsure.

Have you seen that Cats and (especially) Ferrets have been found to catch Covid 19 also? It is not know if they can then pass it to humans. Dogs have been found to have traces but is thought do not 'catch / pass it on' - maybe contaminated by being stroked with contaminated human hands?

The good news I suppose is that cats and ferrets tend not to sneeze in our faces or kiss us!! Given what dogs roll in I hope most people already wash their hands in between stroking dogs and handing food.

John Paton 1

Can I ask that if you make a statement such as ferrets catching covid19 you provide a link to such a statement so the rest of us can try and make an assesment of it's validity?

In a previous post I provided a link claiming 0.1% sodium hypochlorite will kill this virus in a minute. Bleach sounds harsh but Milton is bleach and sounds much more cuddly. I'm not advocating using it for regular hand washing but I doubt that the odd rinse in 0.1% sodium hypochlorite is a real concern.

Survival of contamination on surfaces is always affected by factors such as associated dirt protecting the germ, the specific heat of the substrate, temperature and humidity of environment and UV light which is why we see such disparate figures.

It's an RNA virus although that distinction is academic for discussion here.

The bigger problem is how long this lockdown is going to last. I'd forcast several weeks - probably 3 mths if gov can keep control and sort out food delivery schedules. If one looks back at Wuhan then that's been going nearly 4 mths with stricter isolation than here and they are only just allowing new folk in - but no-one out.

pgk

Daily Mirror News feed yesterday - Ghent University Belgium

sorry but I don’t know how to create a link from the news feeds

Daily Mirror News feed yesterday - Ghent University Belgium

sorry but I don’t know how to create a link from the news feeds

if you do a Google search on ferrets and Corvid 19 you get a number of hits on what appear to be trustworthy sources - ferrets are used for testing as they are known to be susceptible to this type of virus.

Daily Mirror News feed yesterday - Ghent University Belgium

sorry but I don’t know how to create a link from the news feeds

if you do a Google search on ferrets and Corvid 19 you get a number of hits on what appear to be trustworthy sources - ferrets are used for testing as they are known to be susceptible to this type of virus.

.

John is clearly struggling with his links ... but I have found this story elsewhere: **LINK**

https://www.dawsoncreekmirror.ca/rapid-response-covid-19-science-conducted-by-father-and-daughter-virologists-1.24098371

MichaelG.

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Edit: See also : https://www.milabs.com/milabs-enhances-micro-ct-for-coronavirus-covid-19-research/

... Where ferrets are on the cast-list.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/03/2020 09:55:28

Hi, Wednesday 25th I made an on-line order with CPC.co.uk, it arrived yesterday morning (Sat 28th) at my normal Postie time. Postie rang the bell and was stood a safe distance away when I answered the door and he asked if I wanted him to pass it to me or place it on top of a box that is fixed to the wall beside my door. I stepped back and said to put it on the box, which he did.

Regards Nick.

Michael, John (et al)

My quick scan of Michaels two links states (if I read it right) they are using ferrets as a model for coronavirus response in man. That;s nowhere near the same thing as saying they can carry COVID-19 or pass it on. In fact the implication is that they have a coronavirus of their own that behaves similarly much asa lot of the work on HIV was done by Glasgow vet school using cats with their version FIV for modelling and trying therapies and vaccine approaches.

I did find a newspaper link to the reported cat case in Belgium and commented on that in this thread Link

Once again I'm not saying they can't get, carry, pass on COVID-19 just saying that none of the articles state that with any clarity and will be hyped by journalism and then risk becoming web dogma.

Many years ago i dug an airgun pellet out of a young cat's spine that was compressing the chord and causing paresis. Local paper heard about this and sent a reporter. I showed him the pre-op x-ray and he dug a ruler out of his pocket and then stated that less than 2 inches lower down it would have hit the heart. I pointed out that less than 1" higher it would have missed the cat.

What is worring is that if one uses the FIP cat as a model then their coronavirus has been rattling about for decades, vaccines have proven pretty useless and like COVID-19 many show no signs and some get devastating untreatable disease. Gov is now gently nudging the public to accept longer lockdowns and months after for distancing. I read this as the reality that we are all going to (have) to catch this sooner or later so the world can get back to more normal.- hopefully with some better treatment options and fewer patients at any one time. And thats without knowing about any longer term implications - heart, lung, organ damage

pgk

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Understood, pgk

Those were just the first two credible references that I found to ferrets.

MichaelG.

Has anyone seen quoted anywhere what is the survival time of the virus away from an infected host, say a parcel or indeed a cat who has been coughed or sneezed on??

There has been so many claims to that question. Not sure they actually really know for definite.

Steve.

I read a scientific paper saying it can survive for 3 hours in the air . What does this mean other than floating around in the atmosphere???? If it can float around in the air for a while and hit you in the face it sounds quite frightening.

Now on laptop so can quote the link re cat: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cat-tests-positive-coronavirus-after-21770384

I have just got a refund from the ebay supplier, so they had probably run out of stock accidently. Another supplier of the same items has marked up as posted, so I'm hopeful this time.

[This posting has been removed]

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From my post on the ‘Sanitiser’ thread ...

This appears to be reasonably authoritative: **LINK**

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/03/why-soap-preferable-bleach-fight-against-coronavirus/

I find it particularly interesting that the virus survives so long on stainless steel surfaces ... which are what we tend to use for the sake of cleanliness

MichaelG.

I did find an article (a few days ago, memory forgets where) re coronavirus survival at 0, 20,& 40C with relative humidities of 0, 50 & 100% which generally showed 50% humidity destroyed it best and a slight beneit at 40C over 20C but longevity at 0C.

I'd speculate that the specific heat of stainless keeps the viral particles cooler and that could fit with Michaels link re wood , paper and plastic survivals. Copper as the wild card due to it's surface oxides being toxic to many organisms.????

pgk