Chinese horizontal bandsaws

The above article talks about 2 versions of the saw one with adjustable blade guides ( for angle) and the other with preset guides mine are preset hence my previous comment of I wasnt sure what the op meant about blade angle

Neil Thanks for posting the article on the chepo bandsaws. It would have saved me a lot of time if I had been able to read that first. I did not even get any "manual" with my Graham "Alpine" model.

Not having a quick eye for detail, it took me a while to figure out why the blade kept jumping off. I did eventually suss out how to cant the whee,l to stop this happening.

I am almost there with setting up the saw, but I will print out the article and just run over the words and music as I recheck the saw setup, I will machine one of the guides to get me that last bit of adjustment. I will also be taking an angle grinder to the casting, so that I can reduce the width between the guides without clobbering bits of the vice etc.

As the majority of people have said, it is cheap and cheerful saw. However it has saved a lot of hacksawing time for the various contributors. I was foolish to consign it to a dark corner of the shop for almost 30 years!

Thanks everyone for your help,

Andrew

I bought an old Warco branded version last month, and spent a week stripping it down, re-painting and re-assembling. During the re-assembly I turned a number of washers up to take up all the axial slop in various components, or provide a decent bearing surface. I don't have a milling machine, so when I came to the blade guides I filed the castings flat on all the mating surfaces, with a bit more filing to ensure that the guides were able to rotate through a greater angle so the blade could be adjusted to cut vertically. I reckon I can cut a 50mm bar to within around 0.5mm of being square whereas before it was several mm out.

One thing that was worth doing was to join up to the Yahoo 6x4 bandsaw group - a rich source of links to various mods and how-to's on setting it up so it cuts square and the blade doesn't fall off. I suspect that is the source for the document that Neil has linked to.

If you do a Google search on 6x4 bandsaw you'll find more links that will help - modifications to the vice so you don't have to faff about with spanners, another vice mod so you can clamp short lengths, yet another so you can clamp odd shaped flat sections straight to the bed, several different types of hydraulic damper to replace the woeful down feed spring mechanism, designs for bases (the standard sheet metal legs are truly dreadful) and even coolant systems.

Much of the information is from the US where they are sold under the Harbour Freight brand (and usually referred to by the purchasers as Horrible Fright - they have much the same opinion of them over there, ie they're a kit of parts that needs sorting out and rarely work well straight out of the box).

My bandsaw is an Asian one, and was not without problems. It tended to veer off at angle, for one. Evwentually the thin tube spacer between the bearings in the wormbox went through the b earing and oil seal. New bearings and seal with a thick brass spacer cured that. Trimmed up the drive and idler pulleys which were running out; much better. latest, recently was to set the blade tension having made a gadget illustrated in another U K M E magazine.

First test cut was square within a thou! Unbelieveable, but not claiming that it will do that consistently.

Moral seems to be: set it up and get the tension right, for better results. Not a precision instrument, but a saver of time and effort, (and it cuts straighter and squarer than I can!).

One "dog" of a car, was exaggeratedly described by the owner as "Running like a Rolls Royce" once it had been set to makers specification.

Most things work better when correctly set up, and this applies to relatively low priced bandsaws.

Howard

Hello Folks,

I have taken heed of all the points raised and printed out the link to the 4 x 6 Bandsaw Tracking and Adjustment article.

I had a really good session of adjustment and modification and now the saw cuts to within 0.2mm on a 3 inch bar. The difference is dramatic! Thank you all, who pointed me in the correct direction. It was well worthwhile.

Just think how much labour I would have saved in the last 30 years if I had done the adjustments then! Now to sort out a decent base. The sheet steel legs are a disgrace and worth fixing now the saw tracks correctly!

THANKS TO EVERYONE!

Andrew.

Andrew

Glad you are sorted. Looks like yours was a bit better out of the box than mine if you were able to get the tracking sorted without re-making the guide adjusters. Seems to me that the really critical thing with these saws is being able to get the guide roller bearings running nicely against the blade on both sides. If you don't have that nothing seems to behave, understandable given that this design inherently puts a lot of twist on the blade as it runs on and off the wheels. Probably rather more twist than ideal but inescapable for a machine of this size. It must make the guides work hard. Mine had significant clearance at the tightest setting, maybe 20 - 30 thou, over 1/2 mm, from memory so no chance. Its interesting to note that the larger, horizontal only, version is far less troublesome.

Probably higher price on the larger one gets a better built machine but the larger wheels must significantly reduce blade twist forces. Interestingly when I first became aware of these small H/V saws the price was much closer to that of the bigger horizontal only version. The guy who told me about them, a professional, said they were no trouble but standard blades were pretty naff. Too expensive for me at the time. Prices had pretty much halved when I finally bought, not that long after they got popular, making them much cheaper than the bigger horizontal ones. Differential has remained fairly constant since so I guess the market won't support a "good straight out of the box" version.

Agree the standard legs are useless, bordering on dangerous. I put mine on a roll around cupboard type stand about 3 ft long, 2 ft high and 13" wide using speed frame square tube for the main structure and 1 1/2 inch castors for wheels. Size dictated somewhat by material stocks. Main cupboard bit is full length, about a foot high with drop down door on the front. Hooks on the door for blade storage, space inside for one of those hand mitre saw units that were popular some time back. Upper 3" (ish) deep section takes a swarf drawer, again made to fit what I had, with a compartment at the handle end to hold the stock stop unit. Another drop down lid keeps the dust out. I always remove the stop unit for storage so the unit can slide into a smaller space with it off.

Its not ideal. Height was originally determined by the need to slide under a bench and is good for sitting on when using the saw in vertical mode but its on the low side for stock cutting. Another foot or so further up would be easier on the back when stock cutting but may well be unstable due to the narrow base and you'd probably need to sit on a stool when using in vertical mode.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 13/10/2016 11:39:11

Returning to comment again on this thread, I kicked the vertical operation into touch at the very sight of the flimsy table and comic struts intended to support it.

​To be brutally honest, I would not use it to cut out balsa wood in that mode. The number of times I might have considered using it that way have been nil in 15 years of ownership. I keep mine for cutting up lumps of material that would otherwise give hours of exercise at the vice.

​Having got the blade guide blocks right and the blade guided truly vertically with respect to the vice, I recently cut 23 slices off cast iron bar 85 mm diameter, all at 13.2 mm width to within 0.2 mm from which to make a stack of Myford gears.

Each cut was completed in 4 minutes or so and it was really a joy to see it tackling a bit of mass production in a satisfying way. I was also using the supplied length stop for consistent working, it gave me no trouble at all. For this job it was positioned just at the base of the bar and to the side so that each slice was pulled free of it as the saw blade broke through.

Hello,

I did have to machine one of the guides to get the blade vertical, so it wasn't all plain sailing. But very satisfying to see it work as it should, despite the awful design implementation.

My "Alpine saw did not come with a length stop and I cannot visualise where to mount such a device? maybe on or behind the fixed jaw? It would be a useful addition to the saw's repertoire.

Andrew.

Andrew

My Alpine has a round hole in the extension to the base casting that provides space for the blade slot. Upper edge perhaps 1/2" below top of base casting.  Side edge perhaps 1/4" away from the motor side.  A 1/2" diameter round bar slides into this with a hex socket grub screw to lock it to a suitable position. The inboard end of the bar slides back under the casting just behind the nut on the front bolt holding the swivelling "fixed" jaw down. Clearance as standard is tight round there. Mine got modified so everything undoes from the top alone, I don't need to get under the base casting to make jaw adjustments.

The stop proper is a sort of L, or flag, shaped with boss thingy which can be locked on the rod using, as standard, another hex socket grub screw guaranteed to fill with swarf. Mine now has a sliding tommy bar device. Had to square up everything relative to the boss bore but it works quite well. To my surprise the flag shape is pretty good for a lot of things but, as all is square, I use both sides.

Standard stop carrier rod is a foot or so long so it can be slid back out of the way. I have 2 ft and 3 ft ones for longer work too.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 13/10/2016 14:04:03

SHEET STEEL BASE

My simple improvement was just to weld in a steel fillet at the base of each leg and fit a decent castor. Makes a big difference. I fitted the stiffener angle upside down and sat a bit of MDF in there as a shelf.

VICE

Move the jaw plate from the fixed to moving side to improve its capacity

BELT TENSIONER

File the casting to gain ~ 1/4" more movement. You can't really have too much tension when applying it by hand.

WORK SUPPPORT

Fit a bit of angle iron to the vice and allow the saw to cut a shallow runout groove in it.

GEARBOX

Take care as all the oil will come out when opened. Make sure the gears are properly aligned and fully engaged.

CAPACITY

The vice is arranged to allow cutting at 45 degrees to maximum capacity. If you would rather more capacity for ordinary cuts, move the vice.

Also, consider modifying the guide so it can move further.

ALIGNMENT

Follow the instructions in the PDF - they work.

CUTTING OIL

Lubricate the blade, it won't make it fall off if properly adjusted.

Neil

Here's a link to Michael Cox's bandsaw mods:
http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/bandsaw-modifications.html

GadgetBuilder has some ideas as well:
http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/BandSaw.html

Dave

The Emerald Isle

my workshop is a 12ft x 12ft cellar with 'features including a small alcove - this would just fit an H80 bandsaw - thus a base made of MDF using a wooden frame was built

I noticed that the approx centre of gravity was close to the inner leg of the vice thus by using a lazy susan it was possible to rotate the saw so that it could cut longer lengths - the black knob on the far right (one of 4) screw a 6mm rod onto the base to lock the saw - the metal being cut lies over the line of the frame of the drawers (left open especially for Neil as a place to throw random spanners is not lost) - makes much better use of the space and for much of the time can cut small bars without needing to be rotated into the passage space.

There must be literally millions of satisfied users of the 4x6 bandsaw. As pointed out, there are many well-documented modifications to enhance its operation. When correctly set up, they are excellent things and it doesn't require any rocket science.

Mine has never given any bother and cuts material much better than I ever could, with a lot less noise(!). About the only mod I've done is make up a large (~6"x6" slotted plate with 2 countersunk holes in it. This is a table for vertical operation which I've used quite often for cutting and profiling sheet, bar and plate. Much quicker and cheaper to remove large lumps on a bandsaw than to hog it out on the mill. And cutting through a piece of 3-4" bar stock can be done while you get on with something else more critical like drinking tea.

Murray

Mine is still proudly displaying it's Alpine badge and some surface rust especially on the motor.

I tried a spray can of motor cycle chain spray out of curiosity as a lubricant. Sort of very thin grease. Seems to work well and will be used until the can runs out. Even wd40 helps.

Frankly I can't really see the point of titivating them too much but perhaps for some reason mine wasn't too bad. It did take a while to get the tension right. I also suspect that this may need doing later due to blade stretch.

It was way out of square until the tension was high enough. I think they have skimped on the length of the front / top guide - even more so I assume with Neil's mod.

John

-

Hello Clive,

Thanks for the description of the length stop on your Alpine saw. I took a look last night and found the 1/2" hole as you described. The grubscrew was found after digging all the swarf out of the hole. So now a simple matter of finding some round bar and the job is done.

I am seriously thinking of taking an angle grinder to the casting as you cannot extend the" top" guide without fouling the casting, when half way through a cut! I shall check that there is no other way around the problem before resorting to drastic measures,

I think I will copy Neil's solution to the awful tin legs! They are quite dangerous and when moving it during some building alterations, it fell on me. It wasn't much fun as I am disabled and couldn't move! Serves me right for trying to shift the saw with such a lousy set of supports!

Andrew.

My Warco version has a shelf which helps to stiffen the flimsy steel sheet. So flimsy that I bolted a length of angle iron to where the original wheels were fitted. Replaced these by two 4" (100mm) dia plastic wheels with rubber tyres, which have lasted far longer than the originals. When moving the saw, do be careful not to lift it too high. The C of G is quite high and it will easily fall over backwards. This does not improve the cover over the fan, and the panel beating can be quite difficult. Also it hurts if you get involved with it as falls over.

Howard

Alone day mine is going to get treated to a couple of IKEA Helmer drawer units and the flimsy legs will get thrown. I'm always fighting for space and all that fresh air under the saw is just a waste.

It is surprising how much little fillets in the bottom of the legs stiffen them up. The original bases are just folded over and not attached to the other side of the angle.

Neil

Finally got rid of the useless bent steel legs and replaced with something more useful. The units are the Helmer drawers from Ikea, £25 each, pop-rivetted together with a bit of 18mm mdf screwed to the top. It needs a smooth floor for the supplied castors to run on as they are very small (and as the units are at right angles to each other the castors on the rear unit have to be screwed on at 90deg to the normal position). At last somewhere sensible to store a few bits and pieces.

Some of the mods, following the links given earlier in this thread - a decent clamp for the vice jaw, extra tapped holes in the bed for strap clamps, cheap baking tray to catch the swarf and a moveable stop for repeat cutting:

The motor fitted when I bought it was this 3 phase AEG, but it came without a fan and cowl (evidence of it falling over backwards in the past I suspect!), along with a duff capacitor. Made a new cowl from a plastic paint kettle and fitted a fan from an old washing machine motor. New capacitor was from eBay.

Edited By Steve Pavey on 02/11/2016 14:59:20