Myford ML4 ?

The lathe came with the cast iron upright stand for the motor and layshaft. The stand which has fain numbers cast in, is MA 124 I think. A bit hard to decipher.

When I placed the stand on the bench it rocked and is seems that the base was not machined very accurately, or that the cast iron has warped over the years. I will need to rectify that before painting.

I have now found some marks on the bed which might be a serial number. I will take a photo and add to my album.

Re. " a good beginners lathe", my first ever lathe was (according to the original Myfords) a Drummond built around 1917. It had the cast in arch between the two headstock bearings.With the gap bed, it was amazing what could be done with this small lathe.

After this I acquired a nice toolroom lathe complete with collets. Then came a Boxford , then another Drummond but possibly built by Myford, a Super seven and now this ML3/4.

All in all plenty to keep me amused !!

Mike.

Sorry Entered In Wrong Thread

Edited By Journeyman on 27/08/2016 15:39:43

Mike,

​The machine serial number is stamped on the end of the shears (front I think) at the tailstock end. The same number will be stamped on the spindle and the 25T gear locked to it with a 2 BA grub screw.

The saddle and tailstock were all identified in the same way, but I can't now remember where the marks were stamped. Don't forget to look in my albums, there is a copy of the original manual there which you might find helpful

Myford used the MA identity on a lot of their castings in those days

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian thanks for the info in last post.

I could not find the manual in your albums. Maybe I am having a senior moment !!

There is a number, 163 on the 25T gear and there is a raised cast -in plate on the side of the bed below the headstock area with LH 163 stamped on it..

I found two small grub screws next to each bearing on the top side. Do these locate the shell bearings, to stop them rotating ? They are both tight at the moment, so I will not remove them unless absolutely neccessary.

Mike.

Hello Mike,

Just click on my photos, it is the second one in the list below the ML 7 gearing table

Your 163 sounds like the serial number, clearly an early one, but I can't remember what the grub screws you refer to did or why they are where they are. Best left alone I think

Brian

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Only one image in that album, Brian

Useful diagram, but I presume that Mike was expecting to find all pages of the manual.

MichaelG.

I don't think your topslide is original, so I can't say what your grub screws do. It appears to have the ML7 dials by the look and these didn't come along for a good few years after the machine was made.

It's probably not a bad thing, the original had 12tpi screws, which are a little like a chocolate teapot.

I remember writing to real Myford back in the eighties when I got mine (as a teenager). I asked for a manual, but they said there wasn't one. The sent me a photocopy of the picture (IIRC) linked on Brian's profile. It was pretty grainy. Then at the bottom of the A4 sheet was the original screw cutting chart for the change wheels.

I don't know what I did with it. But it's long gone now.

Edited By Andy Ash on 27/08/2016 20:11:16

I found a simple manual for the early 3 1/4" and 3 1/2" Myford on the site below.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=6592

However, when I saved the pdf, the first half only shows the top of the pages, while the second half is normal size ??? Strange

On the site it is possible to view the pdf and then all pages are correct size.

Mike.

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Mike,

It seems to have saved O.K. on my iPad

Suggest you try again ... Yours may just be a corrupted download.

Happy to send you the PDF by eMail if you're still having trouble.

... Send me your address by 'Personal Message'

MichaelG.

That link is superb.

The A4 sheet that Myford sent me was obviously taken from that information.

It was the picture at the beginning and the Whitworth / Metric screw-cutting table in the middle.

I imagine they didn't send me the descriptions and part numbers so I didn't try to make an order!!!

I don't know if it helps, but you should find that the standard Myford vertical slide will fit on the machine.

In some ways the ML4 is better with the vertical slide then the ML / Super 7. The dovetail bed is better at dealing with forces upwards and away from the bed. Obviously the vertical shears on the seven rely on the retaining plates and the accuracy of the shims for upwards forces.

I remember being quite disappointed about that last point when I got my Super 7.

Edited By Andy Ash on 28/08/2016 10:55:56

Mike,

My apologies, it seems as Michael G says that I have only put the annotated photo in my album.

Until I get the current problem I am having sorted out by shifting my browsing onto Chrome, the best I can offer you for a copy of the full handbook is to get in touch with me by email​

It is as Andy Ash said, the feed screws for cross and top slide were both made as square form 12 tpi threads, but Myford fitted calibration collars having 80 divisions so that each division corresponded to 0.00104 inches of tool movement. It didn't of course get over the fact that one full turn moved the tool by 0.083 inches, a particularly difficult number to work with. Furthermore, the 12 tpi 'nuts' were made directly into the casting I seem to remember, it was only when they started making the ML 7 that separate feed nuts were introduced.

The Bull wheel is 65 teeth, another awkward number for division purposes and the teeth are very ​ prone to chipping, I have one in for repair now with three broken off teeth.

One modification I found really useful was to convert the mandrel to ML7 specification by adding a collar to the nose and machining a new register diameter of 1.250 inches on it in situ using the longest reach tooling I had to get there. After that of course, all standard ML7 spindle fitting hardware could be used. Even then, finding such equipment with the ML4 register of 1.125 inches diameter was uncommon and it will be harder still today.

My email address is wood_y (at) btinternet (dot) com all in lower case, no spaces and with an underscore between the d and y

I had 30 years use after inheriting Pop's old lathe and cut my teeth on in from the aged of 7.

The real design failure was with the tailstock setting and that dreadful arrangement on the soleplate, but I found ways of getting round that too which I will happily share

Regards

Brian

Hi Andy re. " I found two small grub screws next to each bearing on the top side. Do these locate the shell bearings, to stop them rotating ? " I was refering to top side of heas stock, not top slide. ( I should have been more explicit. )

The dial indicators on the cross slide etc. have 0 to 100 divisions, but I have not as yet checked the TPI of the lead screws, to see if they were modified at some time in the past.

There is a small bronze bracket at the front edge of the cross slide, held on with two 1/8" diam. screws. I am assuming that this is where a dial indicator was attached ,as there is a semi circular cut-out in the lead screw guard at about the same location..

This lathe, which I finally now think is a ML4 ,has a centre height of 3.5" and between centres it is just under 24".

At the gap it could swing just under 10" diameter item which I know from my old Drummond is pretty handy at times.

Mike.

I think I know the holes you mean.

I don't think I ever had any screws fitted in there. One hole is full of paint.

The other is clear to the bottom, and I can see the shell, and then a hole through to the spindle.

If you rotate the spindle you can see it moving at the bottom of the hole.

The nearby oil holes look to be much the same if you remove the oiler.

Hope it helps.

Andy.

I have now had a chance to check the cross-slide threads and they are both 10 TPI which makes for easy setting.

One full turn of the handle is 0.100" and 10 turns is 1.000"

I have found a couple of Myford drawings which help to clarify the differences between the ML 1/2/3 and 4 models and they are in one of my albums.

Mike.

If you visit the Lathes.co.uk website you'll see the bronze bearings are bored in place; don't do anything to disturb them, and if they need replacement you will need a way to accurately bore new ones in place. Beware over-tightening as the casting may crack.

Neil

That last point from Neil is really critical.

Those pinch bolts are easy to abuse. Once abused, it's really hard to get it back again.

I apologise for not being very attentive, I've been a little busy this weekend.

I recently had a fair bit of dialogue with Wayne from Staffs. A whole load of ML4 type stuff (including the pinch bolts) came up. You might find that thread interesting......

**LINK**

Edited By Andy Ash on 29/08/2016 11:04:55

Neil and Andy,

​I have made the same point with Mike in private contact, but for others the risk can be prevented by fitting closely sized shims with location holes through them so that the bolts close down onto solid material.

Regards

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 29/08/2016 11:29:08

.

I doubt if it's original to these lathes, but;the mullti-layer 'ShimPack' material would seem a good candidate for this job.

http://www.shimpack.com/shimlammetals.html

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/08/2016 11:59:25

I just removed the rack from the bed and a bit curious about this. I would have expected to see machined areas behind each of the six screws positions on the bed, but it all looks like rough casting.

There are oversized washers between the rack and the bed. problem with those, is that the rack pinion meshes hard against them at each screw location. Took me a while to figure out what was happening as I first thought that the rack had swarf imbedded in the teeth. Anyone else had this problem ?

Mike.

Mike,

​I never disturbed the rack fitted on my lathe, but like you I would expect machined seats. Rather unlike Myford to skimp that, more akin to cheap Chinese practice.

​Brian.