Member postings for Old Crock

Why not print one? Go to Thingiverse and search Rose Index. Inspired by Mr Pete’ video.

John

If you go to www.itemsmailorderascrews.com and click on an email link you'll get an extensive list of BA screws etc. They advertise in Model Engineer.

They list socket head countersunk screws in all sizes from 0BA to 6BA plus 8BA.

For example 5BA x 1/2" are £4.68 for 10, and sorry Martin 6BA x 5/16" are only £2.49 for 10. Other lengths are available!

I have not bought from them yet so cannot comment on availability or delivery but worth a try?

Iain, I hope you are making progress with your frames. As I mentioned earlier there will be highs and lows. For me today was a high as I got one of my Simplex running on air - after 8 years (not full time!).

From here on it should be plain sailing but I will believe that when it is finished. I just hope it doesn’t take another 8 years as I don’t think I have that time left in my tank😁.

So whatever happens persevere.

John

Interesting solution to the oiling problem David. Clearly the Super Simplex is a different animal to the original Simplex but still omitted to say how to get oil to the boxes.

Don't get me wrong, the original Simplex can be made to work and is quite a nice looking loco, but there are many hurdles for the beginner to overcome.

The Walschaerts valve gear for example will not work without a lot of easing, something that may worry a beginner.

Iain I see that you are only working from the drawings from GLR. I assume they are the same as mine originally from Nexus. When drilling the frames don't forget the 3/16" reamed hole 4 3/16" ahead of the centre axle and in line with the weighshaft. Your drawings will give you no information what they are for! They are to line up the pivot points in the motion plate link brackets, something which Martin Evans failed to mention until "a large number of builders of Simplex have been after my blood the last few weeks".

In the original build in ME this appeared six months after he described the motion plate and link brackets, where he said to locate the motion plate, pull the crosshead right out, slip the motion plate into position and allow it to assume its natural position relative to the slide bars. Fix in this position. This is repeated in the book. No mention that I can find of those little 3/16" holes. In the later admission he says of the large number of builders "They complain that the slide bars are 1/8" too short! Unfortunately for me, I have been telling these good folk that the mistake is not mine, when all the while there has been an error, though not actually in the length of the slide bars themselves". He goes on to explain that error is in the distance of the rear edge of the motion plate from the centre of the driving axle.

This error was caused because he left the drawing (on cartridge paper with a 6H pencil) in the sun and it shrunk. One of the first things I was told in this hobby was never measure from a drawing!

Anyway we are getting ahead of ourselves. Before you get to the motion plate and valve gear you need to tackle the rear cylinder covers! This is the full size drawing

This is the same item in the book with two 2BA bolt fixing for the slide bar:

And this is the slide bar:

Why is there a .010 relief? No mention of threaded hols for the rear of the slide bar where it fixes to the motion plate.

Enough of my whinging. The Simplex will work but not "out of the box". A beginner will need help, possibly lots of it..

My conclusion is that the drawings and write up were a mixture of original work and copies from other designs and they lost, in video terms, a little in continuity.

Keep going though Iain and do let us know how you get on. Good luck.

John

Jon, where can I find the errors on Sweet Pea? I did not build mine but I would like to know if and where it may differ from the original.

I know your point about self inflicted errors, I am sure we have all made mistakes but by and large they remain private! I am often told by my mentor about LBSC’s tendency to refer to earlier articles in his builds. Not many people have the space to store a full set of ME’s!

Your suggestions for oiling the axle boxes are welcome but the purpose of this thread was to point out the pitfalls for the novice. Most beginners will be well past the stage of completing the axle boxes etc before realising the problems in store for later.

Derek, the same issue applies. Sealed roller bearings are fine but they are not part of the design and are unlikely to feature in the novices thinking. You obviously learnt the hard way! A club member has suggested oiling through the axles as you suggest. Not an easy task when you have got past mounting and pinning them to their axles. Another vote for having an experienced engineer to hold the beginners hand.

My posts are trying to bring some realism to the “the Simplex is a beginners locomotive” mantra and to highlight the errors and omissions in the Simplex so let us move on ….. to the valve chest. Concentrate on the left side where the valve rod enters the boss.

This is the full size drawing of cylinder and valve chest, notice the vertical line in the bore of the boss. To a novice is that important and if so what does it represent:

This is the full size drawing of the valve chest on the same sheet:

That line must have been a draughtsmans smudge ‘cos it has disappeared. Note to novice – ignore it.

Can you see any screw thread? The builder of my Simplex 2 could not either and made a close fitting insert to slide in the valve chest with a blind hole for the valve rod. No fixing shown and of course as soon as air pressure is applied the insert shoots out. Cured by some Loctite high strength retainer. However this design is contradicted by Martin Evans in the text where he says “This end must be tapped and plugged, using 7/32” x 40T tap if available, otherwise open out the last 3/16” to 7/32” and tap ¼” x 40T”. A contradictory case of do as I write not as I draw!

This is what the valve chest drawing should look like, taken from Terrence Holland’s series on a Fairlie Complex based upon Simplex running gear:

Keep calm and carry on!

John

Having stuck my head above the parapet let me kick off at the beginning.

This is the full size drawing, General Arrangement front elevation. Notice those two “boxes” on the front of the side tanks?

Let us assume (we are a novice after all) that they are tanks with three pipes leading off on each side down inside the frames. I say assume because they are not shown or mentioned anywhere else on drawings or in text. As there are three on each side we can assume (again) that they are to lubricate the axle boxes.

This is the axle box. Note the lubrication hole is offset.

These are the horns. You have a choice. The cast ones have no hole for getting oil to the box. The fabricated version has a 1/8’’ in the centre of the keep NOT above the oil hole and no explanation as to what it is for.

This is the actual horn and axle box and the oil hole is in the gap. This is the rear driver which will, if it ever gets that far, be hidden under the boiler and behind the side tanks. Good luck getting an oil can in there. Lubrication of the axle boxes is pretty fundamental!

If the axle boxes are lubricated from the tanks referred to what size pipe? Does it rely on gravity? Where do the pipes run so as not to interfere with any other part of the mechanicals. Straight forward for a novice?

Iain, I guess you have been sucked into a Simplex build, like me, by oft repeated quotes on this and other forums, indeed by Martin Evans himself in the introduction to the build, that Simplex is a beginners locomotive. Let me assure you it is not! It could have been, it should have been, but in the current available editions (note plural) it is most definitely not for beginners. By beginners I mean novice first time builders like me.

Possibly too late now for you but for a beginners loco you could do no better than a Sweet Pea. It has simpler (Hackworth) valve gear, simple coupling and connecting rods, a marine boiler and, most important, easy access to all the mechanical bits once built. It also has a comprehensive build manual written by its designer Jack Buckler and I am not aware of any errors in it. Jack Buckler actually BUILT the first Sweet Pea. How many other designers actually build the first example of theirs?

Why is Simplex not a beginners loco. Simple. There are just too many errors, omissions and contradictions, all designed, perhaps not intentionally, to trip up the beginner. By the way the site for errors referred to by Jon in an earlier post is very useful but take it from me it only scratches the surface. There are plenty more.

A beginner expects to be able to construct a loco from drawings with everything to fit, possibly with minor fettling, and clear instructions. Simplex is not that beast.

It is no surprise that probably the most prolific part built models you see for sale are Simplex, usually close to but not complete chassis. Sometimes it is just castings where someone has given up the uphill task facing them. What does surprise me is the number of completed Simplex that are around and running successfully but I suspect they were built, or breathed upon, by experienced modellers, not first time builders.

What gives me the right to hold these views? Let me put my cards on the table.

I own a Sweet Pea. I did not build it, I bought it as a ready to run loco with certificates. However I have done a nut and bolt rebuild, redone all the plumbing, converted it into a 0-4-2 and other minor changes. I think know my way around a Sweet Pea.

As for building a steam loco I have never done it. I am a beginner, a novice in that field but I am fortunate to have quite a well-equipped workshop. As for Simplex I am building two! Simplex 1 as I call it I am building from scratch. Simplex 2 I acquired with a brand new boiler which is what I was really after. It came with a part complete chassis which was too good not to have a go at – I thought! It came into my life when my chassis was also half done. It opened my eyes to how two people can interpret the “same” design in different ways, but then it depends what you’re working from!

I have the luxury, or should that be the confusion, of having the full size Simplex drawings published by Nexus, the book of words by Martin Evans and copies of the articles from Model Engineer detailing the build.

I also have two friends who are/were building their own Simplex. One got so frustrated at having to remake parts he gave up. The other completed the chassis but the wheels wouldn’t go round, or to be more accurate the valve gear as designed prevented the wheels going round. It spent quite a few hours in the hands of a very experienced engineer (we are talking exhibition display quality) who by removing metal did get it running on air. A lesson to be learnt by beginners – have an experienced engineer to hold your hand – I am lucky to have a number in my club.

Iain, I hope I haven’t dented your enthusiasm (I probably have) but it pays to have a reality check now and then. Realise you are on a very steep road. There will be highs but probably more lows. If you have the patience, stamina and take advice you may just reach the top of the hill. I hope so.

John

Simon, before deciding on buy or build give some thought to maintenance.

Unlike a car that you can give to the local garage to repair, or if you do it yourself go to the main dealer or after market for parts, you cannot do that with a live steam loco.

Whether it's buy or build things will wear out, drop off or leak. You need the knowledge and equipment to keep it running. That is where a club is so important. Advice and help available when needed.

Of course if you build it you will gain that knowledge and experience but it may takes years.

How well equipped is your workshop, not just lathe and mill but taps, dies, various drill sets, reamers, etc.

John

Simon,

Cannot help you with a price but the following may be of interest. It is of course a calculated guess you understand as I have no connection with any of the people or brands mentioned below!

The model Keith Appleton was modifying was probably made by the Wuhu Brands Arts & Crafts Co. Ltd. in Anhui Province, China. They have a brand called Bowande which is their division for live steam models.

On the Alibaba website for Wuhu there is a direct link to their website www.bowandeusa.com.

On that website under dealers they list two in England:

Bowande Live Steam UK Ltd., Rickmansworth. They exhibit at exhibition in the UK.

The other dealer is Kingscale, Braunston, Northamptonshire. Kingscale is of course the trading name for live steam locos from Silver Crest Models.

Keith Appleton makes it clear in a disclaimer that the model he modified is not a Kingscale or Silvercrest model but was bought directly from the manufacturer in China and delivered to Blackgates Engineering.

Station Road Steam sold a 14xx “manufactured in China by Silver Crest Models” in 2017. It was new in 2016 . Their description is worth reading! Especially the warranty conditions!!

Interestingly all the pictures show a loco numbered 1466 and I am sure the GWR built more than one.

If you are so inclined Simon I will leave you to join up the dots!

John

Hi Iain,

A couple of weeks back I did a favour for a local garage. Asked to clean up the very abused end of a 60mm solid steel bar I cut it off on my band saw. It took all of two or three minutes and of course it has auto stop when the cut is complete so doesn't need your attention all the time. Also no grit or sparks!

It also cuts square and clean so almost no need for facing the ends unless it's critical but I did anyway.

My band saw is one of the very common 350watt type sold by Warco, Chester, Clarke and many others. Mine happens to be badged Draper. It will cut up to 114mm round and 100x150 rectangular bar.

These saws are so common that they regularly come up second hand. There is an Axminster one on eBay now at £150 with two days to go.

It is also my parting off tool of choice.

John

Ok. If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em. I apologise in advance that this post has nothing to do with model engineering!

Firstly Michael G I would happily carry out the analysis you suggest but fear I will not live long enough to publish the results.

If I may drift back to the original post I drive a 2018 Kia Sportage which has not one but two visual indications of the current speed limit, one is derived I understand from the GPS/SatNav and is displayed on the touch screen, the second is read from the road signs by one of five cameras on my vehicle (not including my dash cam) and displayed in the instrument cluster. It has many other safety(?) aids and so far, in nearly 5k miles they have behaved faultlessly.

Of course I have the ability to switch all these aids off, including the speedometer, if I so choose. It’s called a brain and it is very easy to slip into ignore mode! I am not alone in this. Tootling down the motorway at a steady 80 I am usually overtaken by a string of vehicles, mostly of Germanic origin, desperately trying to catch the white van at the head of the procession. They clearly have the ability to engage ignore mode as well.

Now back to advances in engineering which I think if my memory is correct was briefly mentioned on page two or three of this thread.

You may guess from my stage name that I am of a certain age! I can remember when most make and model of cars had round headlights, probably Lucas, with replaceable filament bulbs, unless you had gone upmarket and fitted sealed beams. Break a headlight and the local scrappy would be able to offer a range of replacements and providing it was the right diameter it would probably fit. It probably cost little more than the price of a gallon of four star (4s 6d plus 1d for a shot of Redex I recall).

Fast forward to the present day. Many cars now have what the industry call “signature headlights”. You know the type, sculpted to blend in with the flowing lines of the bodywork and with LED displays (the signature) which are usually unique to a make, sometimes unique to a model and even unique to a trim level within a model range. Scrappy’s no longer exist but try getting the specific replacement signature headlamp from your local vehicle dismantler. No chance. You have no choice but to go to a main dealer. Most modern headlights slot into a fixing on the body and are secured by a single screw, presumably engineered to make fitting swift and easy on the production line.

It only takes a minor front end shunt to break the fixing on one of these lights which are of course sealed units. Forget the cost of the cracked grill or rippled bumper the cost of the headlight alone will I am sure far exceed the combined personal and compulsory excess on your insurance. Do you drive a car with a signature headlight? Any idea how much a replacement costs? Go on check I dare you and report back here.

I’ll start the ball rolling. A headlamp for a Range Rover Velar will set you back a little over £2000! That is for one not a pair!!

As for advances in engineering the same vehicle has, like many cars, a puddle light in the door mirror. The Velar doesn’t just illuminate the puddle it throws a silhouette of the vehicle onto the puddle as well. Sorry but shadow art on a car is taking engineering too far!

This discussion would be so much better in a pub but it’s not my round and I’m off to the workshop. Drive safely.

John

Is it my imagination or are threads on this forum getting longer?

It has taken me ages to read the 16 pages of this thread alone. It seems a life time ago people were slagging off any make of vehicle whose driver had upset them in a previous life!

However it does raise two questions in my mind.

On average how many posts does it take to change the subject under discussion to something unrelated to the opening post?

Secondly what is the longest thread with no mention of MODEL engineering?

Just asking.

John

I have had three Fobco drills and a friend has another. All of them have the same table clamping arrangement. The slot in the casting in all of them did not extend the full height, it was closed at the bottom.

I think there may be some confusion. There are two clamps of the type Ian Parkinson refers to on a Fobco. One provides a clamp for the quill, the second provides a clamp for the head assembly on the column (note it does not “support” the head but prevents – or allows - the head to swivel clear of the table and base).

There is a collar under the head which clamps to the column to support the head itself, and as Peter Spink says it prevents the heavy head falling and smashing into you, or worse the table! This collar is clamped by a through bolt with the chrome handle as the nut.

The table is also clamped to the column by a through bolt in the same way. Both through bolts mentioned probably had square heads originally as the castings have a square to fit the head and prevent it turning.

I have had the same problem as Phil and others have mentioned in getting the table to clamp firmly on all the Fobcos I have encountered. It appears to be the Achilles Heel of an otherwise excellent drill and like others I have resorted to a longer lever. The original 2.5 inch handle just does not do it so I use a stout tube spanner giving me a lever 6 inches long but it still requires some effort to avoid movement. Incidentally when the clamp is relaxed I can get a 0.080” feller in the slot and when it is securely clamped only a 0.030” feeler will fit so it is not closing the gap completely. The gap is clean by the way!

John

Today I received another digital RPM display and connected it up as John and Dave suggested. Whoopee it works!

By substitution it appears the original sensor was faulty.

Thanks to all for your help and advice.

John (a genuine old) Crock(er)

Thank you John and Dave for your replies. I have tried as you suggest and there is no change - I still cannot get a rpm reading.

I cannot explain why both sensor and display have power but it does not work. I have decided to put my retirement at risk by investing in another from another supplier. After all if others can get them to work maybe either the display or sensor has a fault. Like modern cars maybe substitution is the easiest way to find out!

The one I have at present was from eBay: Item ID 152633294042.

Thanks again for your help, I will post a result when I get a replacement.

Hello Everyone,

I have one of those very cheap digital rpm displays from China. Mine is the blue four digit display.

I have read various threads on this forum, watched a number of you-tube videos and searched other web sources for information. I believe I have connected it the way the majority of opinion leads me to believe is correct.

The 12v power supply is from a wall wart. When connected as shown the display shows 0000. The light on the rear of the sensor is illuminated.

For testing I have the magnet (neodymium) fixed to my Fobco drill chuck controlled by a VFD and the sensor is aligned temporarily in a small vice on the drill table. When I rotate the chuck nothing changes! The display stays at 0000 regardless of speed.

Yes I have changed the magnet over and that made no difference. I clearly have power to both the display and sensor so can someone please tell me the blindingly obvious! What have I done wrong?

By the way the lead from the display is a five core ribbon cable, no distinguishing colours and I have assumed they are numbered left to right whilst looking at the rear of the display. If I connect it right to left the display is blank.

Just to confuse mere mortals like me on one of the suppliers listing it says:

1 Power source + (assume this is dc supply +)

2 Power ground (assume this is dc supply -)

3 Signal earth (assume sensor but which lead?)

4 Empty (understood!)

5 Measuring + (assume sensor but again which lead?)

Another supplier lists the sensor connections as:

Brown (Power +)

Black (Test +)

Blue (Signal)

Any ideas welcome please.

You can always rely on the folks on here so thank you all for your help.

A search on Turret Roller Turning Box brought up quite a few images of similar tools so thanks again for your help.

This tool came in a collection from a workshop clearance. Can anyone identify it and explain its use please?

The straight arbor is 2 1/8" long x 1" diameter with a 5/16" bore.

The head is 2 1/4" diameter with a 1/2" bore 1 1/2" deep.

The 3/16" HSS has an angled end but no side or top clearance.

Fine adjustment of the two rollers and HSS is by releasing the clamping nust and using the knurled screws for fine movement.

There may be a makers mark, or it may be an owners stamp, which you can just make out in the second picture but it is not clear enough to make any sense.

An update on the facemill mentioned earlier in this thread. Sure enough it did not come direct from Guernsey or China but somewhere else in the UK. I don’t know where because the package had no place name franking mark and the local Royal Mail sorting office could not tell me so it remains a mystery. There was absolutely no paperwork so I don’t know how much of the £34.99 was “free” postage and packing or indeed if I paid VAT. The cost exceeds the exemption under LVCR mentioned in MichaelG’s link so whether it was from Guernsey, the UK or another EU country I think VAT was chargeable.

The face mill itself looks fairly good except the socket head cap screw was too short to engage in the thread in the R8 arbor. Easily remedied but reinforces my view that quality control for tooling from China rests with the customer and not with anyone else in the supply chain! I suspect the weak spot will be the ten carbide tipped inserts but only time will tell.

I also ordered recently a very cheap battery tester for a friend. On eBay the location was Luton, Bedfordshire, the cost £2.95, free Royal Mail second class post. It arrived today from Spain again with absolutely no paperwork!

Two days ago I ordered a face mill off eBay. The front page location said Guernsey but click on the seller and it says "based in China, an eBay member since December 2015". Is there a Guernsey in China ? Price includes free postage and I assume VAT.

The seller has 34980 feedback ratings. I make that an average of more than 91 transactions every day, including high days and holidays so surely must be registered for VAT.

Delivery is promised in two weeks so I guess its not coming from China but exactly where I have no idea. I bet it's not Guernsey!

On the same day I ordered some stuff from ArcEurotrade. I know that comes from Leicester and it arrived today!!

Satch'll