Member postings for I.M. OUTAHERE

Hi,

The only issue I had when I bought 2 new holders for my tool post was that the "T" slot for the locking mechanism was a few thou different and the holder would not go on but a quick massage with a file or a stone in a die grinder fixed that I also had a dig in when parting off once and the TEE bolt that locks the holder in shattered as it was glass hard but the supplier I bought it from just exchanged the whole unit without question .

Also , when fitting different holder make sure the mating surfaces are clean as a small bit of swarf can cause the holder to cock to one side and this can change your tool height or cause it to come loose .

I plugged that hole up as I found that it allowed swarf to work its way in between the tool post and compound slide when I loosened it to adjust tool angles etc .

Ian

Hi all,

the AI terminal as explained in the manual is Analogue current but it could be labeled incorrectly also and could actually be the ACM terminal instead .

The Chinese writing under that little circle may be a good psychiatrist to call once you have lost what was left of your sanity trying to work out what the circle means !

In program 70 you have 4 settings :

1) 0-10v

2)0-20ma

3) 2-5v

4)2-20ma 10v stacked 

if the pot is connected to the ACM terminal numbers 1&3 operate

if the pot is connected to the AI terminal numbers 2&4 operate.

Other than a crappy manual  the unit is worth the $250 au and cheaper for smaller units .

thanks for all your help with this issue  also  .

Ian

Edited By SLOTDRILLER on 19/11/2013 18:56:31

No use getting me to turn them I have enough trouble turning the feed handle on my mill in the right direction !

One would be grateful that 2 valves per cylinder were the norm and not 4 or so !
I wonder if the Mechanic had a pet Monkey that danced as he wound the handles !

Ian

Hi all,

Well it looks as Ian Phillips is correct about the wiring of the pot .
And there is a program to cater for this .
In the picture below you will see the wiring diagram for the 10k pot (mid picture L/H side )
As drawn the pot is connected across the VR (10v) and the ACM terminal and the wiper connected to the V1 terminal .
If I go into program 70 I can change from voltage sensing to current sensing and the unit will work only when voltage sensing is set when configured like this but 0- full speed achieved in the first 1/3-1/2 of the pot travel as described in my previous post .
So I decided to try disconnecting the ACM terminal and connecting the AI terminal instead and changed the setting in program 70 to current sensing (0-20ma) and away it went ! I now get a speed change over about 75% of the pot travel .
I'm not sure what the little circle is that is connected between the ACM and AI terminal and the mostly useless manual does not elaborate on this either , maybe it is Chinese for optional !

The terminals that were marked incorrectly are the ones at bottom left SPH was ok but SPM &SPI were reversed or the printing in the manual is wrong , I have set these up for emergency stop and fwd /rev jog .

Ian

Ok I have gone through the entire list of program settings again , had a play with the wiring of the pot , tried a logarithmic and linear pot and tried the 5v ref voltage instead of the 10v but nothing has changed .

So it was back to the internet for a good search and on one forum there was a suggestion of using 2 pots in series so I gave that a go and it worked .
So the 10v ref now connects to the wiper of a 1mohm pot (pot1) and one of the outer pins of pot 1 connects to one of the outer pins of the second pot a 10komh unit (pot 2 )- the other outer pin of pot 1 is not connected . the other outer pin of pot2 is connected to the ground terminal and the wiper of pot (2) goes to v1.

So how do you set it ?
Easy , turn on the vfd , press start with both pots wound fully clockwise and if all is well you should only get the lowest speed or some humming from the motor .
If the machine spins up to speed try winding the 1mohm pot the other way and the speed should slow to a stop or your lowest speed setting as per the internal programming .
Now you want to check if the other pot is wired to give a speed increase as you turn it clockwise so wind the 1mohm pot back a little to get say half speed and see which way the 10kohm pot has to turn to get a speed change , if it slows down when turned clockwise you need to switch the connections on the two outer terminals of this 10kohm pot (leave the wiper or middle connection alone )

If if the 1mohm pot is backwards switch the outer terminal only as the 10v ref stays on the middle connector .
So now we have sorted that out wind everything clockwise and start up the vfd again then simply wind the 1mohm pot anti clockwise until you just get the maximum frequency as set in the programming and you should find that by turning the 10kohm pot anti clockwise the speed slows over the entire travel of the pot

Sounds complicated but once I tried it I found it simple and the 1mohm pot is now mounted in the bottom of the vfd unit with a dial type knob and a reference mark to re set it if needed .

But wait there's more !
Now say you have your max frequency set at 75hz for example but most of the time 50hz is all you would use you simply turn the 1mohm pot to this setting and you have a maximum frequency of 50hz without changing any programmes ! If you want to go back to 75 hz simply wind it back to get what you want on the vfd display .

So the 10kohm pot is your fine speed control and the 1mohm pot is your course speed control .

Apologies for the long winded-probably confusing post and for hi jacking the OP somewhat .

Ian

A similar machine was sold on E-BAY recently but not the same vintage as this one , I think it bought in a couple of hundred bucks .

Ian

Thanks John I will have a look through my settings and see if there is anything amiss .

I know that PD004,006,007&008 are the same as yours .

Ian

Hi John,

The VFD is a HUANYANG HY03D023B 3KW 220V.

From the manual the model number equates to : HY = TRADE MARK

03D0= 3KW

B = SOFTWARE VERSION.

I have had a scout around on a few different forums and there seems to be a few inverter units not working straight out of the box and I had to go through the entire list of parameters to ensure the factory settings were set correctly , the main settings that were wrong were frequency settings and I would think they were set for the small 3ph spindle motors that they sell.

I suppose that for the money one can't complain.

Ian

Hi John ,

I thought of that but the pot is marked LIN and a check with a meter would suggest this is correct .

The pot on the VFD is the same , it only works in the first half of its travel so I am starting to think it may be an internal issue or something to do with the reference voltage that is set up for the pot .

I am thinking about trying a logarithmic pot at 10k as it may counteract the effects i'm getting from a linear pot at the same value ?

The reference voltage is 10v but there is also an output for 5v so I may also try this tomorrow although I suspect I will not achieve full rpm with this but ...

Ian

Graham ,

Check the recent post by Neil about footswitches and there is a link .

The latching switch would be useful for a small electric die grinder or engraver or maybe a very small lathe etc and it is also good that it can be modified to be a momentary switch .
I fitted a foot switch (momentary) to my pedestal drill and what a revelation it has been , I can highly recommend this conversion .

Have tools- we will modify , its the ME way !

Ian

I would have thought that 1.5KW unit to be a minimum for a 1 hp motor and i'm currently setting up a 3/4hp motor to run from a 3.3kw inverter .
Overkill I know but the price difference between units is so small I thought I would get something that would cover anything i'm likely to need and so far no problems .

Other than motor voltage and frequency I have not noticed anything in the programming for maximum current but I would have to double check this , I did have an issue when first connecting this unit for its first run though - wired it up , double checked everything then hit the start - nothing but noise !
Went over everything again and could find no issues with wiring etc but was curious about the noise and it seemed like a frequency issue so I went to the manual and went through the settings for anything that had anything to do with frequency and checked for factory settings , it seems as though some of these units (hyoungyang ) are set up for the small high speed spindle motors and not a 50 hz induction motor ,easy fix is to change to 50hz max output and 10hz start then go from there .

I also had some fun setting up the emergency stop /fwd jog/rev jog as these use 3 of the 4 input terminals as one was labelled incorrectly but I eventually sorted this and marked it down in the manual..
The potentiometer they recommended (10K ohm) seemed to do nothing for the last half of its travel so I ended up having a play with this also and found a 1M ohm unit seemed to spread it a little and gave better slow speed control but it is still a little bunched up at the top end but I can live with it .

The manual clearly states not to place contactors between the VFD and motor nor a power cut out between the power supply and the VFD , from this I would say that opening contactors on the motor side of the VFD will kill the MOSFETS as they don't like to be disconnected while operating and the gate of a MOSFET is only a very thin layer of metal oxide , a voltage spike will find the least resistance and the gate will be it . Cutting the power to the VFD by turning it's power off while running isn't going to help but there should be protection diodes to kill any back emf but not worth the risk and there is an emergency stop feature in the programming if you look for it .

Other than that i'm very pleased with the unit .

Ian

Hi Alan,

The blunt truth is no the motor speed is not able to be slowed without modifications that are beyond most model engineers capabilities .

single phase induction motors have start and run windings and there are a few configurations depending on the motor used .

Yours may have a centrifugal switch to disconnect the start windings once the motor is up to speed and even if you do manage to to slow the speed down with a VFD the switch may drop back in and you would burn out the start winding very quickly . Some motors are configured with a capacitor only and can be slowed down and you really need to look to see if there is a centrifugal switch in the back of the motor before you try to connect a VFD .

A local electronics company here in Australia sell a kit to slow down pool pumps but it is as expensive as a 3Phase inverter and not worth the trouble .

If you really must slow the motor down use a 3phase unit and get VFD to suit then you still need to be aware that the fan will not cool the motor as well when running slow and you need to look at adding an external fan to keep the motor from cooking .

Ian

Edited By SLOTDRILLER on 11/11/2013 17:47:57

I made a couple of gasket scrapers by grinding one end square then bevel like a wood chisel then sharpen it , Once sharp I hone the flat side so there is no burr and this takes the edge off a little so it does not chop onto the gasket face,

We used to make special knives for trimming the lead tape we used to mask jobs when I was in the Electroplating Industry.The most common was to grind at 45deg then sharpen so it was like a large craft knife , others were just like a normal knife but because they flex they were used to strip off the plastic wrap we used to mask large items .
We just wrapped the end up with insulation tape (also used as masking tape ) to make a handle but these days I use heat shrink tube .

Ian

Hi Rebekah,

The kit from LMS works well but if you go to their website and look it up you will find at the bottom of the page 2 windows named Chris's tips and another called compatibility which you can click on to find if it will fit your machine or not .

Some machines are genuine sieg some are clones and there may be some minor differences , and if you are still unsure send the an E-mail as they are excellent to deal with (usual disclaimer etc) .

I'm not sure if ARC do one and if they don't maybe they should look at supplying them .

Ian

Hi Garry,

Before you go grinding anything I would suggest that you strip the chuck down and give it a good clean and inspection.

There could be a small burr or some swarf from machining that could throw things off centre .

Is the runout consistently in the same spot ?

If after re assembly there is no improvement try indexing the jaws around to another slot ( keep them in the same order though ) and see if the runout follows them , if it does then I would say there is an issue with one or more of the jaws and if it does not follow the jaws around it would be in the chuck body or the scroll.

Unless you want to spend some serious money on a chuck you won't find many cheap 3 jaw chucks that will run perfect or less than a few thou but this is not a problem as a light tap with a soft hammer usually improves things or a thin shim under the jaw that reads high with your indicator will sometimes help.

IF you really must have perfection then an independent 4 jaw chuck is the way to go.

Another thing to check is whether the chuck is sitting on the adapter properly as it could have a burr behind it so check to see if the runout gets worse as you move the indicator further away from the chuck

Ian

Hi Danny,

I scored some soluble oil from work a few years back and after some investigation I found it was just a general purpose cutting fluid .
I use it raw applied with a small brush from a tin can and have had no problems so far , I have used it on the lathe , mill and drill with no problems .

Using Inox must be expensive and being a lubricant versus a cutting fluid I would have though to be counter productive ?

Maybe you could do a test by cleaning up a piece of scrap steel and painting one end with the oil mixed with water and the other end as raw fluid then chuck it out under the carport or something similar and see what happens ?

Ian

The IC is probably a switch mode controller chip .

How are you going to power it ?
The 30A rating may be momentary as those MOSFETs have small heatsinks so check your motor wattage .

Other than that it looks like a good unit .

Ian

A 14LB sledge hammer because when something really annoys me it soon knows about it !

Other than that I would also say my 6inch flexible rule or 12 inch hook rule - both very handy .

Another couple of things are a good centre or prick punch as I have seen a few people go to the trouble of accurately marking out a job then use a blunt punch and another favourite is my carbide tipped scriber .

Ian.

Hi all,

I went off on a tangent as usual

Ended up fitting tapered roller bearings , modified the spindle to crop the overhang down as far as possible , made a set of aluminium bearing covers up that are fitted with lip seals to keep the junk out of the bearings then converted it to 3 phase running off an inverter, it also has the drive belts converted to M section V belts and stepped pulleys .

i actually found that the reduced clearance for the chuck retaining nuts made it easier to fit as I can trap them between the mounting stud and headstock and give them a turn with a spanner and they thread straight on.

i picked up some thrust bearings for the cross and compound slides and maybe the leads crew on E bay that I will fit later on and a lot cheaper than you may think .

Just about finished the bench for it and I can fire it up and use it to do some mods on my other lathe.

Ian