Member postings for Fowlers Fury

Assuming there's no 'pip' left on the piece in the chuck and you are using a centre drill which either doesn't centre correctly or the tip breaks, there are several causes. One is a worn tailstock barrel. Another, peculiar to Myfords (only?), is that the hole in the back of the tailstock barrel into which that small, round dowel with its key fits, has become distorted. This can cause the barrel to "twitch" when you start drilling. Geo Thomas published a remedy in the M.E. some years ago. [I think it's also included in his Model Engineers Workshop Manual Vol 1].
When done on my original & well-worn Super 7, it cured the breaking of centre drill points.

Some wisdom above !
I find repeatability is a recurrent problem. Perhaps it's the way I take measurements yet I'm sure the current cold temperatures are a factor. Going into a cold workshop, a previously measured item at the end of a long session when everything has warmed up, invariably gives a different value especially with a digital vernier. Probably due to battery temperature rather than expansion. Most calibration certificates seem to be at 20 deg C. For the last few weeks my workspace begins at 8 deg C. (For several reasons, I'm unable to maintain the garage/workshop at a constant temp).

For a beginner, a vernier is surely the more versatile device (inside, outside, between centres + depth gauge) notwithstanding its limitations as Neil points out. However, an old but cherished Moore & Wright micrometer still gives that feeling of confidence, repeatability and spurious accuracy.

Re: "I have to disagree. I was present when someone asked an unbelievably stupid question. We were on a tour of the Westlands factory in Yeovil. The stupid question was 'Why doesn't the helicopter have an ejector seat?, Now that is stupid. Never seen anything on that scale online.".

Point taken but perhaps the questionner had been thinking about downward ejector seats, like the B52 & much later F104s? (only joking !)

<><><><><>

But back to the Brian's (OP) questions and follow-up answers. Inevitable I'm afraid you'll receive conflicting advice, suggest you ignore mine and follow that of those more learned in these matters.

Brian,

"Slackening the screws and adjusting...." is to achieve that relationship between the escape wheel teeth and pallets.

It could be there are parallax errors but looking at your image I reproduced, the split rod holding the suspension spring appears to be canted over to the left i.e. anticlockwise. That is causing the spring to be bent very slightly as it emerges. Instead, the suspension spring should be perfectly straight.
In the rest position the pallets should have one pallet holding back one tooth of the escapement wheel. In your picture there is the appearance of one pallet resting on top of a tooth. Again it might be due to the camera angle but if not, that must be corrected. Accordingly I think that if you slackened the 2 screws and turned the bracket slightly to the right (of the image) you should both correct the spring's slight bend and get the pallets engaging correctly.

Russell ~ your pic reminds me of the mangled crutch on an old English longcase I restored. The badly bent brass was so brittle it fractured hopefully that wouldn't happen with Brian's clock.

Brian ~ looking in your 'album' I now see there's an image of the pendulum support.
I've "levelled" the top edge of the backplate with Photoshop and can see the pendulum was not vertical and the pallets seem wrong.
Also it appears (with the arrow) that the aforementioned suspension spring support has been previously moved, evidenced perhaps by the screw on the left being ....err...mistreated.

Revised thinking is that you first try slackening those 2 screws and adjusting the plate before trying to modify the crutch or disturbing the collet.
It may be that easy.

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 31/01/2018 11:06:28

EDIT: Your reply appeared just as I posted this ! I wouldn't attempt to disturb the collet.

Roy is correct, but if you're not clear on what he means this might help:-

The crutch is that piece which those index fingers are pressing !
The picture is trying to show what you need to do. That is, bend the vertical rod little by little until with the clock horizontal your pendulum hangs vertically. Hopefully then the clock will still be in beat.
If it now refuses to run, you may need to loosen the 2(?) screws on the back plate which support the pendulum spring pillars. The holes through which they fit should be large enough to permit slight rotation of the pendulum supports. Doing so will alter the escapement.
Again, and assuming your clock has this facility, you'll have to progress slowly by trial and error until the clock is in beat. If you're still unsure, post a picture of the pendulum support.

Although fitting new taper pins is worthwhile you may find the female tapers are far from good in an old clock and new pins may not seat firmly. (That's why I wrote "the taper pins need to go back in their original holes".
In the absence of a correct taper pin reamer, (which you couldn't use anyway without removing the backplate) just give the new pins a "more gentle" tap in.

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 30/01/2018 22:39:51

Was posted on here a week ago:-
"The Future for JLR?" http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=133337
Picked up from a Porsche owners website !!!
Response when copied to friend at JLR was to send me this link:-

**LINK**

"Defender Works V8 is the most powerful and fastest version that Land Rover has ever created.It will accelerate from 0-60mph in 5.6 second, while top speed is increased to 106mph."

106 in a Defender?

"There is a clue in the title of the thread"

Put it down to senility..........

Some useful advice offered for the OP (Bob) but he didn't tell us what his cylinders were made of, or the piston rings he intends to use (polymeric? PB? CI? stainless?). If his bores are GM, then my opinion remains that honing with such devices may do more harm than good in inexperienced hands (e.g.easy to bellmouth and/or taper, embed particles from hone etc).
If his bores & rings are CI and the boring bar has left high spots, then honing with such devices may certainly be worthwhile. One of the limitations of vitrified abrasive stones is that they wear rapidly. It is claimed that depending on the grade of stones and hardness of the bore, (quote) "the operator must compensate for stone wear to keep the bores straight otherwise it will lead to tapering". How one can do that is not explained. Examination of those "cheap" devices doesn't instill confidence that each ofl their stones will exert the same wall pressure or that the stones themselves are flat.
Though with few us having Delapena honing machines, they're maybe better than nothing - if really needed.

Bob.,
For what it's worth - and no doubt very little:-
I used one of the 3 armed hones you're describing. I ran it at slow speed (maybe < 200rpm?) and used a light machine oil diluted with paraffin. The GM surface seemed to be removed quite quickly particularly when new.
However, I'm far from convinced it should ever have been done. The between centres boring bar was a heavy one and the surface produced looked and felt pretty good. Moreover I was confident it had produced a parallel bore.
Those hones by contrast can (will?) very easily produce a bell mouth at either end of the bores as you need to keep them moving axially. So when the stones reach the end of the bores, you must be sure to reverse their direction or their springs will begin to push the stones angularly giving the bell mouth. Obviously the hones must never be allowed to dwell in one position.
On balance, I'd rely on a good finish from a solid boring bar for GM cylinders.

**LINK**

3ph motor: less noise - yes, much smoother & little or no vibration - yes, need to keep changing belt for torque - yes.
Buy a cheap desk-top fan to keep the motor cool (well OK, "cooler" !).
Would also recommend fitting a Brammer multi-link belt in place of original to drive mandrel.

Since installing both (Transwave + multi-link belt), no more of those annoying surface striations when turning with saddle under self-act. Now a quiet and smooth running S7.
All-In-all, t'was the best investment since buying the Myford.

Simon,

It's very easy - put "ferric chloride disposal" into Google and you'll find many methods of treating the solution in order to dispose of it safely (as well as warnings about unsafe disposal).

"Been making a revised set for one of the outside cylinders today still over size at the moment just wondering if I should make them mor of a snug fit welcom you advice"

Robin ~ Are you referring above to making piston valve rings or piston rings?
I'm probably the last one to be offering advice, given the mistakes & failures during my (3^rd) loco build. But when I went through the tedious, ⁴/₃𝛑r³s-aching process of heating the block in the oven; shaving a thou off the piston rings, reassembling, reheating, re-turning ad nauseam, I found I'd had to take 11 thou off the full, room temp diameter of the ring. That was for 1.5" ID cylinders estimated to be at 170C when running in order to get a sliding fit. However, as I posted above, I was so dubious about it all I scrapped those rings and instead used "Artisan's" method (modified for PEEK CA30) and hopefully his technique will provide running on air and seal at operating temp. Again, I'm going to adopt the same procedure for the piston valve 'rings'.

Julian has made reference to "Roger Froud's" approach. I have watched and read the 13 pages of postings on piston rings over the 12+ years:-
**LINK**
and have admiration for the contributors' wisdom therein. But there are so many postings offering different experiences and recommendations, that I just end up wiser but confused. You may not be, so do have a read.

If you do go for complete rebuilding of the piston valves, it might be worth considering the advantages of the design published by the respected Geo Thomas. This greatly facilitates adjusting the valves in situ and the construction is quite straightforward. (Model Engineer, 16 May 1975, page 503).

“the valves are ptfe on gun metal bobins which i have copied on the advice of a well respected model engineer from the club but made a questionable better fit this engine is a known good runner but needs some tlc”

'have hesitated some while b4 posting, not wishing to bring down opprobrium from the experts and anyway it will contribute nothing directly to your plea for help in checking the valve timing.

Ah well, flak jacket on………. I’d now advise anyone with CI cylinder castings not to use PTFE for piston valve “rings”. The misfortune of my having GM castings precluded CI rings/bobbins and the significant thermal expansion of even the mica-filled PTFE rings caused major problems. If they are turned to give a sliding fit at room temp, they will tighten up markedly at steam temps and can creep laterally.

A recommended remedy is to turn them to a sliding fit at expected (?) steam temp by appropriating the domestic oven when SWMBO is out for the day. Consequence of so doing is that they won’t seal effectively at room temp. You then (probably) can’t run the new build on air and the loco’s performance with steam is atrocious until thoroughly hot. Altogether an imprecise solution and not just my experience, notables such as Doug Hewson report similarly.

A solution for the main cylinder piston rings has been published by Artisan on David Carpenter’s website (http://modelengineeringwebsite.com/) necessitating some complex calculations and machining. With the author’s help, I’ve remade the piston rings and will attempt the same for the valve rings, using PEEK CA30 instead of loaded PTFE.

Though there are undeniably many builders who are very happy with PTFE & PTFE/composite rings, there are some salutary statements about the materials use in DuPont’s booklet “Filled Compounds of PTFE” especially concerning wear rates, abrasion of the contact surface and lubrication.

**LINK**

"....one of the two 2-8-0 locos which had only just been repatriated from Turkey."

Did it perhaps originate from the (quote) "Çamlık outdoor museum was inaugurated in 1991 just as steam was phased out from Turkey. It has one of the largest steam engines collection in Europe, most them joining the museum shortly after being retired from service." ?

'was lucky enough to visit there several years ago, a marvelous collection of non-working steam locos built around the world for running on Turkey's metals. The website doesn't really do it justice but maybe worth a look:-

http://www.trainsofturkey.com/pmwiki.php/RailwayMuseums/CamlikMuseum

"Typically I can't find any photographic examples at present but I'm sure someone here will support or refute this."

Herewith image of LMS 6399 about to be towed from Derby to Crewe Wrks in March 1935 for conversion - devoid of coupling and connecting rods....added edit > "at least from the outside cylinders !"

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 29/12/2017 17:29:58

It's been so cold in the double garage/workshop I decided to insulate the steel roller doors to conserve heat.
**LINK**

There was enough of the insulation left over to line several drawers.
The material is a sandwich of expanded polyethylene foam bonded between two layers of tough aluminium foil.
This can be easily cut with a knife to whatever shape to provide recesses for milling cutters, lathe tools etc.
Furthermore, it's now much easier to keep the area warm enough to resume work !
(Usual disclaimer with respect to the above supplier).

> Chris T anhd Jon,

Many thanks for your comments.
I have used Iscar tips for general turning and found they performed well so I'll certainly try a couple for the p/o holder and hopefully start using it again.

"Looks rather rounded even though unused."
My thinking too & why I began to sharpen them on a diamand wheel, after which they cut much better. Here's that same new tip from the side:-

With your +ve comments about the "Greenwood" tips, do you both also use the standard holder? (The one shown unused in my image above). I'd be grateful for some guidance then because even though I carefully align the vertical "tip holding plate" parallel with the chuck body, it apparently flexes enough to end up with a distinctly dished cut-off piece. There's no discernable sideways movement in the top slide and the saddle is always clamped hard to the bed.
I had been using the TC tips from JB in the original Greenwood holder. Those showed this angled cut and I wondered if this caused the concave surface after parting (which doesn't show using the slitting saw & is thus now used exclusively).