Member postings for Ketan Swali

If used with a standard JT2 stub arbour, the JT2 stub will stick out a little more, but I am not a 100% sure. Also have a read of this thread.

Ketan at ARC

Originally, when we started selling keyless drill chucks over ten years ago, return rate/rejection rate from end user customers was high (more than 3 returns within a short period of time). At the time, we had less understanding of the 'use of keyless chucks'/ pros/cons, quality of components and assembly. So we stopped selling them, and looked for alternative manufacturers paying attention to consistency, quality of components used and acceptable accuracy. After checking a few manufacturers, we settled on the factory we currently use.

Thereafter, return/rejection rate from customers has been very low, combination of product assembly issue and customer failing to understand the over tightening effects of a keyless chuck over time on certain (not all) repetitive jobs which require such chucks to be loosened and re-tightened in between the repetitive jobs, to avoid seizures of keyless chuck mechanism.... regardless of the chuck being made by ROHM or an other. However, I would quickly add ROHM will be more consistent and robust then most, due to the consistency of assembly and quality of components used. (I can see some readers suggesting that that is rubbish , and you are of coarse entitled to your opinion)

Nowadays we have a greater demand for keyless chucks from industrial customers (mainly 13mm and 16mm) resulting from word of mouth and regular procurement for these chucks, so we have to be consistent with the product we supply. However, we have been out of stock for all sizes because the factory we use ran into financial difficulties. I understand that a new investor has taken over the factory a few months ago, and I have been advised that our orders will be completed within the next two weeks and then shipment will take place. I would expect that we should have availability by mid-May this year.

Our buying agent has requested a meeting at the factory, which is expected to take place soon. If the factory delivers as stated, and provided we are happy with the factory visit - i.e. we get confidence in the factories future prospects, we will continue to work with them.

If the factory fails to supply, it will be pointless to have a meeting, and ARC will withdraw from selling keyless drill chucks, as current alternatives are outside the scope of our requirements.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused by the lack of availability from ARC.

Ketan at ARC

During last year, product costs, postage and courier costs kept increasing steadily, so at some point we made the decision to remove the £75.00 threshold.

Ketan at ARC

Hi Chris,

I am a little confused. If you click on the picture of the pot on the spares page, you will see the details which show that it is switched pot. Is it different from the one you are looking for?

If your mill looks like this then look at this page to see if the pot is the same.

Ketan at ARC

Looking back at Samuels opening post, I can understand the reasoning behind why he has chosen to utilise the SC4 faceplate and standard 3-Jaw 125mm chuck on his mini-lathe.

For what I am about to say, my comments are born out of safety concerns.

The SIEG mini-lathe headstock is designed to support a specific spindle length through ball raced bearings used to support an 80mm chuck, with related expected loads. Similarly, the box section of the headstock casting ‘should be’ 16mm~18mm thick or a little more,.. enough to support ball, angular contact, or taper roller bearings of thickness 16~18mm. To support larger diameter chucks, usually the headstock design should be such that it is longer, to hold a longer spindle, or incorporate angular contact/taper roller bearings to support 100mm chuck, and/or combined with a thicker box section, to support thicker/wider bearings.... all dependent on increase in loads spread over the length of the spindle shaft to obtained better balance and accuracy.

The weight of the mini-lathe castings are therefore designed for light weight hobby use. The positives being that it can be moved easily. If used within its designed limitations, the machine should work fine. When used outside its limitations, probabilities of mechanical and/or electrical failure increase depending on various factors.

ELECTRICAL FAILURES: Below are examples of failure probabilities, based on which version of SIEG mini-lathe this installation is put on:

C2 brushed motor or similar - without overload protection - probability of failure over time > 80%

C2/C3 brushed motor or similar - with overload protection - Probability of failure over time > 60%

SC2/SC3 brushless motor belt drive - with overload protection - Probability of failure over time > 50%

By putting on heavier chucks, you are drawing on more power to drive the chuck. Then if you add heavier stock which you wish to turn, once again requires more power. So again, motor and board will need to work harder. Then there is intermittent load / shock load and power surge (U.K. dirty un-regulated power) to add to the mix.

Note: I am not prepared to give this comparison for competitor brushless versions - most of which have belt and gear drive with high/lo gears. SIEG brushless motor mini-lathes do not have hi/low gears.

MECHANICAL FAILURES: Mini-lathe is designed for use with an 80mm chuck. Higher the weight of chuck, the more the chance of breaking hi/low gears if using a mini-lathe which has such an arrangement. Vibration can increase, and if ball bearings are installed - they will wear quickly. With abnormal loads/shocks, over a prolonged period of time, probabilities of fracture in components/casting can also increase.

I am aware that ARC sells a 100mm backplate and 100mm chuck for use on mini-lathe. This is based on demand, but at the same time, if one considers to make such a modification, ARC would suggest replacing standard ball raced bearings to angular contact ball bearings or tapper roller bearings, if the machine is to be used with a permanent change to 100mm chuck, rather than intermittent use with a 100mm chuck.

Above points relate to machine safety. One should also consider one own personal safety. So if a user decides to consider installation ideas outside the designed limitations, then they need to be aware of issues which can arise, especially from prolonged use of such modifications.

I hope that Samuel has or will consider/keep these issues in mind when using his machine after having made these modifications.

Ketan at ARC

Just to balance your observations, I believe that at the time you did say that you pushed the machine to its limits… which I would suggest you really meant that you pushed the SX3 to beyond its limits. Perhaps some of the pictures in your albums speak for themselves? I cannot say for sure. At the time, in response to one of your posts, I had said that the original SX3s had control board issues which were rectified, after which dealers like ARC added the machine to our range. This was a clear and long explanation at the time. So I am surprised to read that you continue to make this one sided comment on a regular basis. Whilst I respect your opinion based on your experience, my and thousands of hobby and ‘light industrial’ small workshop as well as ‘blue chip’ industrial users opinion defer from yours… if the machine is used within its limitations.

With regards to your local supplier in Sydney, I believe that they no longer sell SIEG machines based on commercial reasons rather than technical. This is a topic which no distributor will openly discuss… as they wish to protect their profit margins (interpreted in many different ways)

In the U.K., SIEG machines have a good reputation. They are well represented by Axminster and ARC who carry a good stock of spares. For SIEG brushless motor series machines, control board and motor issues are very few, and in most cases are due to user related issues…. And yes… I would say that wouldn’t I ?

It is wrong for you to continuously make the same comment over the years without balance. New users form opinions based on what they read, and it is only correct to present a balanced picture. Ken can read your post as well as mine and many other positive and negative posts about SIEG and any other machines and form his own opinion about suitability of a machine for his purpose.

Ketan at ARC.

It’s good to read that PF delivery services are getting back to normal in more areas.

Thank you all for your feedback.

Ketan at ARC

Good to know - thank you. I will let the team know.

Yesterday, DPD system refused to allow us to book parcel to your postcode. So we booked it on PF. Even though PF were on strike yesterday, our PF driver collected all the parcels which the DPD system refused to accept. So we are grateful for their service.

Ketan at ARC

Ches: Glad you got your goods. Yes we have been experimenting with more cardboard packaging this year.

Rod: Thank you for your order. It is in the system for processing. Yes it is fun and games trying to strike a balance. Hoping to get it out tomorrow depending on who allows us to book through their booking system.

Ketan at ARC

Lucky you Rod!

Based on the delay calls our team are having to deal with, we are less optomistic... especially for orders sent out by Royal Mail.

I hope this link for DPD Operations works, as it is showing delays in different parts of the country for their service:

**LINK**

Yesterday we tried to ship to an Oldham OL postcode, and the DPD booking system stopped us from continuing, requesting us to book on a different date as that destination has a back-log.

Ketan at ARC

If your DB10 has been designed and sold to you for general purpose use in a hobby workshop however long ago it was purchased, then it would be fine to use a general purpose 32007, branded or otherwise, from reputed U.K. distributors.

If it was sold for general purpose use, then the assembly process for the spindle would have followed general factory assembly procedures. Here the factory would have used whatever TRBs were available - Standard or higher precision. They could have been general purpose 32007, or bearings marked with higher precision which may have failed the higher precision requirements - but fine for general purpose use, or surplus.

If your spindle/lathe was specifically specified for tool-room use, the spindle would have been assembled in a more precise way to ensure that the higher precision of the bearings being used retained their precision attributes during the assembly process. If assembled in the general assembly way, then the precision attributes are more likely to be lost.

Based on the above factors, I would guess that it is more probable that this was a general assembly produced spindle/machine. If so, in my opinion general precision branded or unbranded 32007 - either of which procured from a known U.K. supplier would be fine.

1. Possible causes of the inner race being cracked could be assembly issue eg:

- the shaft might have been too tight

- the installation force/process may have put too much stress/shock on the bearing

- if there was some dirt/shaft between the inner ring and the shoulder on the shaft against which the bearing may sit, then the inner ring may not be sitting correctly on the shaft. This could be ascertained by looking at the wear on the inner ring.

2. Another cause could be abnormal shock on the bearing during use of the lathe, or too much pre-load combination, but this would have had to been really bad... and extremely rare in such an application.

3. It is possible to crack inner rings during dismantling.

If you found a higher precision bearing, and if you wanted to have such bearings installed, you would also need the skill, equipment and ability to instal them correctly onto the spindle, or you would need to ask a company which would have such equipment, ability and skill to carry out such installation for you - correctly. Otherwise, the higher precision attributes of the said bearings would be lost if you were to do it yourself in a hobby workshop environment.

As for the grease, I would suggest general purpose NLGI2 LM bearing grease - approximately 20~25% internal volume (guess). Over packing will only result in excess heat generation unless the grease has extra area for it to escape. Moly grease sticks to the rolling elements like s**t to a shovel, and less recommended by most bearing manufacturers and dealers of old. However, there are people who swear by it. If you decided to use it, use far lower quantities than normal grease, as because of its properties it may not allow the whole assembly to bed in properly (although makers of Moly would disagree). Compromise could be 20% normal grease with 5% Moly (well mixed before introducing), but then again, that is open to debate. Whichever you decide, you should continue with the same idea at every maintenance. Moly extends time between maintenance.

If you had 'finish' issues with your work piece, did you consider increasing the pre-load?. After your installation of new bearings and applying the pre-load to achieve the finish you expect, take a sample piece of the finish and store it with date showing when you did the sample. It takes 'x' period of time for the bearings to bed in. At that time, you may see 'finish' issues with your workpiece, so you will need to check, adjust, add pre-load to the TRBs.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 13/12/2022 13:33:38

Apologies Baz,

In addition to Royal Mail, we only use Parcelforce and DPD. Earlier you mentioned that Parcelforce is crap, so we used DPD this time.

At present we and a small percentage of our customers are finding delivery delays from all carriers. We are trying our best, using premium services. The diversion switching from 2nd to 1st class, or 1st class to courier, or switching from one courier to another has cost us 11% over and above what we would normally pay. This is not a moan or sob story. I am just explaining what we at ARC are doing to deal with the situation. We are getting goods out as quickly as we can. For Royal Mail, there will be strike dependent delays in transit - currently between 1 to 2 weeks for 1st class depending on U.K. destination, regardless of what you buy from all shippers who use Royal Mail.

There is higher pressure on the carriage system at present due to execution of Black Friday deals, and strikes which are outside our control. Certain large corporates are switching from the cheapest e.g.EVRI to other carriers, and then from Parcelforce to carriers like DPD when Parcelforce is on strike. This has put an increased load on DPD… as in our case, and it is clear that they are all having difficulties coping. It’s a case of crap rolling downhill!….

This afternoon as I write, just been advised… don’t use DPD for shipments to Stoke or Cardiff as their depots are well and truly backed up and will need senakot to relieve their constipation … Parcelforce on strike today....so we are removing such parcels from the system now, and will switch them over to Parcelforce on Monday!

Yes, the result is that we are hearing about these problems every day, and we are switching between services as and when we hear about expected problems with a service or destination area. Had we participated in Black Friday deals, our problems would have been greater.

Ketan at ARC

Most mini-lathes and mini-mills are fitted with ball raced bearings. Depending on use/increased precision requirements by the user, they may wish to change such bearings to angular contact or taper roller bearings… as was the case in the mill thread you were referring to. There are mini-lathes which ARC has supplied over 20 years ago, which are still in use. Similarly so have Warco, Chester, Clarke-machine mart mini-lathes which are much older.

Ketan at ARC

Great

Ketan at ARC

FAG 7007B -2RS is a great brand, but expensive. I would suggest that any benefits it has for the price will be lost on an SX2P. Usually such an offering is designed for use with spindles/or applications which run at much higher speed than the SX2P. However, did a quick search for the usual budget brands open variety and they aren’t too much cheaper.

It will be a while until we are able to make an offering - at a more reasonable price. So I guess at present the Simply Bearings FAG sealed version is likely to be the solution if you want a sealed bearing.

Ketan at ARC

Difficulty in sourcing one of the Angular Contact bearing sizes in 2RS (2 rubber seals)form needed for the R8 Spindle.

If you are prepared to experiment on the R8 spindle, you could leave the top bearing on the R8 spindle to be 6206-ZZ or 6206-2RS, or change it to 7206B-2RS (currently out of stock - expected back in, in about a week), and find someone to supply you 7007B for the bottom bearing, noting that it will be open - as not 2RS. Then, incorporate a seal into part 102 Oil Cover (see Exploded Diagram & Parts List) link on this page. I have a spare seal. If you want to try it, call and speak with our Ian and he will send it to you.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 05/12/2022 15:21:10

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Bill, I heard the BBC Sounds replay, and I now have a clearer idea of things to come, so thank you for posting the link.

There are mixed views about Royal Mail & Parcel Force service, especially when they are on strike. At the same time, as JA suggests, attitudes of local collection and delivery drivers seem to govern the quality of service.

On the delivery front, excluding events such as strikes, overall we have had good service from RM and PF. Similarly, we would say the same for DPD.

Today my team has been taking calls from some customers who have failed to receive goods sent by RM last week - mostly sent 1st class due to preempting the strike. Had we participated in the Black Friday event, things could have been worse. In the coming weeks we expect further delivery delays due to RM strike.

On the one hand, we are very grateful to RM and PF, as without them small independent businesses would find it difficult to grow over time from the mail order era to the current e-commerce model. How the unions and management resolve their internal issues is really up to them. However, if they introduce and develop third party or independent delivery operator providers, we will have to monitor the quality of service over time.

For UK parcels sent out by courier, we will ship only through DPD during PF strike periods.

Ketan at ARC

Interesting, thank you and apologies Baz. If possible, could you please pm me your postcode so that I can let my team know, for the purpose of monitoring.

Ketan at ARC

No worries JA

ORCA Books are the official distributors for the 'Workshop Practice' series of books supply to the trade.

They use YODEL to ship the books to us. They loose parcels and destroy the outer packing resulting in damage to books, on a regular basis. YODEL in our area is so crap that we have told ORCA that if we had a choice, we would buy from elsewhere. ORCA don't really care.

I guess the service is different from one area to another.

Ketan at ARC