Member postings for Jon Cameron

I've been watching this thread and replies with interest it was a question I was going to ask.

I intended to use black steel, and then Polish it on plate glass with fine abrasive paper. Working upto using simply some brasso or autosol, on the backing paper. The gib I have is too thick for the new saddle I have for my ML4. The old one had been previously machined and included a 10thou error when traversing the cross slide from front to back. (Ie was higher at the far end than when it started it's journey).

The whole bed needs grinding or scraping, but it isn't a skill I've practiced and will leave that for another day, also on the ML4 is not likely to see any return in any future sale/upgrade, despite the return of accuracy over the next few years of using it. But that's another story.

Edited By Jon Cameron on 20/05/2020 19:06:19

Hi Thanks John,

It seems the general concensus on the boiler, is it does need to be bigger for ease of use.

These points are all been noted along with the need for a 2:1 reduction box in the drivetrain. I did come across a 2;1 reduction unit that had an in built dog clutch that could be operated from a lever in the cab. This is something I will have to incorporate, as I don't believe in static models myself, so will be made to be as usable as possible.

Regards

Jon

Hi Nigel,

I may come back to you with questions at some point in the future.

I do like the 6wheeler version and they look Nice made like that. I have only seen one though. I also like a low lower version that was advertised for sale in the last 6months, would suit a 2" traction engine lovely as a display setup, and room to sit and drive around when your mate Nick's off with the traction engine at a show lol.

Hi,

Can I politely refer you to my original post! "wonder if anyone has a copy I could buy from them". No I am not asking anyone to break copyright especially not on the forum that is accompanying the magazine. I am wishing that anyone that has a copy of the above issues that they are willing to sell, or even pass on to please get in touch.

Yes using ebay is great but unless you are lucky, it's very doubtful that you will receive all issues together that are listed above.

This was meant to be a build thread and a plea for extra info, it wasn't planned to decend into a discussion on copyright.

Regards

Jon

Thank for that, a number of solutions have been made to make the clayton a much more usable engine, ive seen a screw on dog clutch, or a one way bearing installed on the sprocket from the engine, so as the boiler feed pump can operate and supply water to the boiler to keep the water level topped up when stationary. This been driven from the crank, which is permanently engaged for drive, as drawn is a big drawback in my mind.

I have also had two people recommend to increase the boiler outer shell by an inch in height and make a more prototypical front sheet to hide it, which increases the boiler capacity as well as meaning the front sheet is at the correct height as the prototype for the articulated version of the wagon.

Hopefully someone may come along with the articles I need, they may not all be incorporated into the final build but still a worthwhile reference.

Regards

Jon

Hello,

I am gathering parts to build the clayton wagon, I have already got the reprint of the Clayton articles that were republished on this forum. I searched the forum to see if I could find other build threads which sadly they seem to be only a few questions and answers on the wagons, which were helpful, but not a build thread.

What interested me was that there was a series of later articles that came about and wondered if anyone has a copy I could buy from them to review. these are as follows.

• Vol159, issue3814
• Vol166, issue 3894, pg384
• Vol170, issue 3944, pg516
• Vol170, issue 3946, pg652
• Vol171, issue 3948, pg28.

Id welcome any additions to this list that anyone may have, and assistance in tracking them down.

Hopefully this will turn into a good build log, but time will tell.

Thanks Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 19/05/2020 09:44:43

Link for the sale please?

Here's a link to the errors, solutions, and missing dimensions also.

http://www.nlsme.co.uk/Simplex/simplexprobs.htm

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 16/05/2020 11:45:42

Simplex has a lot of known errors in the drawings, there is a page which details all the known errors, for example the cutouts for the hornblocks are dimensioned incorrectly, if you look on the plans for the hornblocks and the frames you'll see what I mean however I'm not sure if your working from a bought set of plans or the articles themselves. As I think there are differences between the two.

I don't have the link to hand but I'm sure someone here will be able to post it or I can have a search for it.

As for frame steel 3mm bright steel is fine, 3mm black could be used but its more work involved in squaring the frame edges. You will have to adjust dimensions to suit the difference in frame material thickness, such as frame spacer and hornblocks, been an outside cylinder loco I suggest that you make the outside dimensions of the frames the same as the plans, adjusting the frame spacer width and the buffer angle width to suit, as well as making sure that the hornblocks sit the correct width. this will make setting up cylinders and valve motion brackets a lot simpler.

Jon

Sorry forgot to add, yes the way you describe the gear train is correct. Work small to large gears.

You will find the new myford gears are keyed, (I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned) but you will need to drill for the pin to compound the gears. Hole is 3/32", and be a reasonably snug fit for the pin but not so tight that it is impossible to remove.

Brian, Robert, my instruction above with the bull wheel was to rule out that it wasnt rattling around on the spindle. I don't see where the issue is in my statement to rule out a possible cause of vibration and thus noise. Luke has said that they had already become a little loose on the spindle

Luke, With regards to the spindle if it's moving 0.015mm, and only in one place, then i would be worrying about a Burr either on the spindle or the bearing. although with the link belts, double check they are all connected correctly, as one loose one would also pass vibration, although wouldn't explain the movement you've measured.

Do the DTI test without any belts attached, as I'm sure your already aware.

Hi Luke,

I believe that it may be the bull gear on the back of the headstock bearing, try moving the pulley over slightly, then lock the bull gear to the spindle DO NOT ENGAGE THE BACK GEAR CLUSTER, lock the nut on the top of the headstock so there is no danger of it falling into mesh with the bull gear. Run the lathe again and see if the noise persists. If it does and that isn't the issue try the following below. Which I wrote before I realised what noise I was listening to. (Mine makes the same noise with the change gears disengaged). The bull wheel is normally free to rotate on the spindle as it will have varying speeds to the spindle any slack is magnified.

If that doesnt work try slowing the spindle speed down and see if you still hear a noise, if the spindle turns over freely it could be a variety of issues that will need working through systematically.

1. remove the belt to the lathe from the layshaft, run the motor see if its actually somewhere else first. it may be that one of the pulleys is loose on the shaft or you have wear in the motor bearing and its transferring vibration to the lathe via the belts. So if there is still the noise with only the layshaft belt connected up disconnect the one to the motor and see if you can hear anything there, it may be as simple as the belts are too tight, but check it all before fettling with the lathe headstock again. Check the layshaft by hand and check all pulleys are correct on the shaft and not slightly to one side of the flat on the shaft which could also cause issues.

2. remove the chuck and turn the spindle by hand, slowly, if it is catching then you'll feel it. Are you sure the headstock was completely clear of any swarf or debris that could be catching in the new bearing, There should be a washer plate front and rear of the thrust bearing. It should not run direct onto the headstock casting.

3. Put a DTI on the register of the spindle, push it forward and back to see if the needle moves, you should have zero end float in an idea world, though if the lathe is slightly warn you wont be able to adjust out all the end float with the threaded washer at the change gear end. Check on the nose thread that there is no up or down movement in the bearings. then repeat the DTI test by turning the spindle by hand.

4. if all these check out and don't present any issues or you don't feel any tight spots then check the pulley and bull gear on the spindle are clear of the headstock and casting, and not knocking each other, also check that the grub screws are loose enough to permit the spindle to turn without the bull gear grub screw catching the spindle. (after re-watching the video I think this is the most likely)

5 check the tool your using is sharp and on centre, also that its 90 degrees to the axis of the lathe, I use the chuck body to align it on smaller work.

6. You may have issues with parting or surface finish if the gib screws are loose. Check these are tight enough again with a DTI so you know that the saddle and cross slide don't move in any axis, any movement here will be amplified at the tool tip.

From the video i'm afraid its difficult to hear anything, but going slower to determine the issue will be far more beneficial than thrashing the lathe at full speed when you know there's something not right.

Jon

If you drill through the top bearing plate with a tapping size drill, then use supeglue to temporarily hold the parts together, so you can mark the centres by running the tapping size drill through the hole held with finger and thumb. Which will leave a small centre for you to drill through and tap. The top plate can then be drilled through at clearance size and the holes will marry up lovely. (Or that's the plan) superglue breaks it's bolt with heat so a quick blast with a small torch will have the two halves separated.

Hope this helps.

I'll have to go see that one. Have you per chance a link to the video?

Ian I am aware that holding steel parts in larger steel parts isn't really a good idea for brazing, as the heat is sapped away.

The parts I want to braze are for a 2" traction engine, there 3mm thick at most.

Hi

I have a lot of steel components that will need brazing together for my traction engine build, (the boiler is done already by previous owner). So I would be interested in learning more of a starter kit where I can braze steel together, be it with silver solder or other brazing rods. Plus the right size nozzle for heating steel, from what i've read and learned steel needs to be nearly red heat to take solder, that takes a lot of heating, and insulation, or a bronze rod, (might be brass but you guys would know) can be used at a lower heating temperature but at greater expense per rod.

Anyhow i'm rambling.

Regards

Jon

Jon

This is an interesting thread of views, the majority says your money up to you. I can totally agree with that, and although i'm only half way through my 30's I had a car crash 3 years ago that given the amount of cars involved and the conditions at the time could have ended totally differently, my kids and partner where in the car also. We came out with nothing more than a little concussed, and aches and pains. I agree live for today, as if there is no tomorrow. This experience has certainly spurred me onto getting some projects started, as if I don't start now I wont have time to complete a few hundred that are currently in my mind lol.

If you want to buy the tools go ahead your money and for your enjoyment. I would say that although new, I personally would see those your suggesting as a downgrade from your current machines, but that's just my personal view.

My workshop tools are at youngest around 40year old for the mill and 80 year old for the lathe. The only new items in there are drill bits and dead centres ect. Nearly all my tooling is second hand as bringing up five kids between me and my partner there is little left at the end of the day for my hobby, so I haven't the luxury of new machines. In later life if I am in a position to buy new tools when the kids are independent I will jump at it.

Keep safe and keep active.

Jon

Hello,

I'm slowly getting to see where all the issues are with a 2" durham project that I bought, unfortunately there has been many shortcuts, and parts left as "that'll do".

I've possibly mentioned all this elsewhere on the forum but as a recap, the issues ive found so far are as follows.

• Boiler stays project too far from the boiler sides and are not all parallel.
• boiler end that slots into the smokebox doesn't fit it looks as if the front tube plate was just too big and it has bowed the front end slightly. (about 1/32" so it is slightly larger dia at the front that 5"
• The boiler inner firebox bottom hasn't been clipped back so is of varying lengths needs filing back to 5/16" all around from the foundation ring
• The stays have already been drilled from the hornplate but as the hornplates don't sit flush im worried the stays are not drilled square for when the stays are trued up.
• The hornplate don't sit parallel or in line with each other so the holes are slightly out.
• the 2nd and hind axle casting, has had the holes drilled for attaching to the hornplates ad hock, and these need plugging and redrilling,
• The same axle holes seem slightly oversize by 1/64", (need to measure them properly with a bore gauge.
• The The front axle wasn't centred properly so the round axle ends actually have two flats in them.
• The chimney base is not sat on the smokebox in line with the perch bracket (tilted chimneys never look good.

I'm sure there's others not listed above but that's certainly a list to get on with. I've decided the hornplates will be scrap and may be used in the durham but not in the same form as they are now. The only thing I can trust on the boiler for reference is the barrel between the front plate and the firebox. I intend on using a parallel clamped to the back of the firebox and in line with the centre pop top and bottom, (assuming this is the reference for centreline). The boiler can then be set up in a mill on some Vee block, or just packing, and the stays milled to size with a machinist jack to the front and rear of the firebox. ( a lttle tooling project). The inner firebox bottom will be draw filled to get it to a scribed line on the copper. as I believe machining here could cause some serious issues with weeping. currently the boiler holds water without leaks but has not been subject to hydraulic yet, as if im right the machining on it will null and void the hydraulic cert as its modification to the outer shell.

Anyhow moving on as that's yet to come and ill see what feedback I get from here on the above.

I started to look at the 2nd and hind axle casting last night, I have made the axleblocks a good fit in the pockets, by using a marker pen and then sliding them up and down, and gently filing back where the blocks rubbed. whereas before they hardly moved, they are now free to move up and down. the mating face with the hornplates was all over, looks like it had been milled but in places the mill had gone a thou deeper and left swirly patterns on it. I draw filled the centre between the two axle bushes, to gain a datum for the rest, using a set square and a light to gauge where the high spots where, and draw filing, I have one side pretty much complete and level on the mating face.

Now the first question, what id like to know is the holes that haven't been drilled well on the casting, been a bronze casting can I mill them over size then plug and silver solder them together. before using a drilling template to redrill them and what solder and flux would be needed, these are right next to the firebox so soft solder I assume is out the question.

Second question how tight should the axles be within the bearing block and the 2nd shaft journal? 5/8" for the 2nd shaft, 3/4" for the rear axle. the rear axle I assume been sprung will require some form of movement to stop the rear axle locking solid when going over rough ground. If these are too loose I plan to over bore and solder a plug in same as above.

I don't have the serviet propane torch yet, and rather than buy new castings, I figured buy the torch and appropriate burner, and mend these instead for the same kind of money.

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 13/05/2020 10:24:15

Hi Brian, Luke

Ive found the article by Martin Cleeves. It is indeed for an ML4, my spindle has the earlier spindle and nose thread of 7/8" 9TPI, therefore it only accommodates an MT1 taper and passes 3/8" stock. Below youll see a scan of the article, which also shows a grinder attachment for the rear of the lathe spindle. Something handy if you only have the one motor, though not recommended as the dust and grit would not do your precious lathe much good. Though the rest would be handy for setting up in front of a bench grinder, to assist with grinding HSS, or Carbide tooling. Something that Luke might like to look into for his tool grinding, it is certainly something ill be doing.

Hi Howard,

I may be wrong on the bolt size, would have to check mine. I've just read your post above.

Jon

You have me wondering now, I'm sure the article was written to convert the 3/8" bore upto a 5/8" bore, so that 1/2" stock could be passed through the bore. I'll have to hunt out the article