Member postings for Neil Lickfold

Thanks for the cross section. On model engines, instead of using the shielded bearings, they have a shaft seal, which has about 0.03 through to 0.07mm in diameter clearance depending on the seal area length. This is normally just behind the front bearing where it is at it's smallest clearance. The small amount of leakage then lubes the front race. The high reving ones leak quite a bit, but the slower reving ones dont. So on an engine like you are making, shaft seal that is 3mm long and about 0.03 to 0.04mm in diameter will seal the case nicely and you wont have any issues with seal drag either. But is seems you have made the front housing already, so unless you make another it is not going to happen. So in the case above, you would end up making the tapered clearance section about 3mm shorter from the back with a bore concentric to the front and rear bearing diameters, and be 0.03 to 0.04mm bigger than the shaft diameter.

Neil

Thanks Jason for making a new and better titled thread. I wonder if those who have made Dickson 00 tool holders are willing to share the dimensions that they used for making their own tool holders?

Thanks, Neil Lickfold

Does anyone know where I can get the actual specs for the Dickson Quickchnage tool holders for the Myford super 7 ? I would like to know the dimensions that they use for the Vee and the area where they use a T slot cutter for the hold back clamp. I have some and can measure them, but would like to know what the actual spec is.

My holders have W stamped on the inside of where the T slot cutter has passed through.

Thanks for any replies,

Neil Lickfold

Edited By JasonB on 06/05/2018 07:54:57

Is there a sectional view of this engine you are building? Just curious.

Thanks Neil

Another option is to make a MT2 shallow taper collet system. I have seen where there are collets that 1/2 the taper of the ER series, so is a 4 degree taper per side. As the standard MT2 has a small amount protruding the spindle /nose face, you could use this distance to make a retaining nut, or use an existing ER nut. Using an existing ER nut , then you could make collets that have a 4deg main taper with a 30 deg front taper. You can also make the collets as long as they need to be to have full engagement on the cutter. So they may only need to be like 20 or 25mm long. Collets do not like the holding part being shorter than the collet holding length. If you look inside the R8 collets for example, you will see it is only holding by a little more than the length of the front taper in the collet itself.

Another way is to make a set of collets that operate inside a MT2 holder like the Deckel FP1 collets for example.

Just another idea for you.

So thought I would start a thread , so people can share ideas on what they do, to keep flying swarf/ chips contained to a small work area, and not everywhere in the shop and shelves etc.

So here is a couple from recently. Just got a used ZX45, and used a fruit box to contain the chips while drilling and milling parts for the mounting of the DRO.

Another is an icecream container with a hole cut out the bottom to fit over the ER40 collet holder on the cnc wood router. I used this to mill the inside out of a piston for a 2.5cc glow plug engine. It also uses a vacuum cleaner and a 3d printed arrangement to help vacuum up the chips with a air mist to help move the chips away from the cutter with a very small amount of rice bran oil as a lube.

after milling,

cleaned up

The wood router can only take small cuts with the 3mm end mill and R.5 corner radius cutter. I only have the counter bore for the trim turn reference in the piston and of course the reamed hole with the clip grooves completed. I let the little 3 flute end mill take out all the inside material. Takes about 10 mins per piston. Once set up, I can have a cup of tea. Clean up after is minimal as well.

Neil

What they did at work was to have a lot of nozzles around the work head, with only 2 at a fairly high velocity, and then the others are just high volume. The Volume ones carry away the chips, and to a point, help in containing the higher velocity jets from splashing forwards, so all the junk goes to the back and out to the LH side away from the operator. It seems to work well with not only the Ali swarf control, but also the steel as well. It did require a bigger hose diameter from the pump, and is a juggle. The volume outlets have a smaller hole further back, then has a longish big diameter hose to turn it from a a jet of water to a flow of water if that makes sense.

On my cnc wood router that we cut Ali with, I have the little airblast thing aiming through a hole on the Vacuum surround . So the air oil mist gets to the cutter and lift the chips, into the direction of the vacuum thing. Keeps it reasonably tidy and swarf free around the area being cut, and the cutters last a long time, with no build up or jamming of chips.

Neil

Thanks for the Video Murray. Seeing the amount of coolant they had for the start versus the volume of swarf, just looked like trouble.

The new Al specific milling cutters have an amazing mirror polish. This very fine surface finish helps to stop the Al building up and binding to the cutter, or cold welding to the cutter. Almost any oil mist will help prevent the buildup on the cutter. In my air mister I use a little of rice bran oil pointing at the cutter to blow away the chips, and a vacuum cleaner to draw away stuff as well. I found that if you just see the oil on the paper after like nearly 1/2 a minute, that is still enough to make it effective. I can't make it use less than that. The harder AL Alloys are definitely easier to cut and get a nicer finish on, over the softer alloys.

The best way to remove Al deposited on a cutter is to soak it in Caustic soda solution. Do this out side so you don't get hit by the fumes. Just the ready diluted drain cleaner will work fine. I don't recommend any of the mechanical means like knocking it out etc.

Neil

Edited By Neil Lickfold on 04/05/2018 09:29:36

If I change to socket head screws, I can use a long series T bar hex key, but as is, can just use a ring spanner. I can also add micro switches from the left or right as well if I go the power feed option. From the front the lock screws are below the scale . My rotary table will be on a raised mounting block, so that It can be used anywhere on the table, and not have to have it hanging off to one side. Still got the covers to go.

Only the centre lock can not be accessed from the front, and has to be accessed from the top.

Neil

The link to show how he did the lube grooves etc does not work for me.

Have a look at what I have done on the ZX45 mill. The Column will be next after some time in September or when I get a heavy lifting assisting device. The holes and the oil grooves can be done with hand tools, does not need to be done on another milling machine. You can use a strip of 6mm to 10mm thick strip of steel as a guide to make the grooves with some form of Dremel or other rotary tool. You can use a ball end type of stone or cutter, or use a disc wheel with a radius dressed on the corners to a 1/2 round. Anything from 3mm wide to 5mm wide will do the job nicely. If you are really good on a disc grinder, you can use that as well. But if you are new to cutting accurately with a disc grinder, maybe that is not as good a method as using smaller rotatory tools. A pistol drill or battery drill for drilling and tapping for any fittings, and in my case, is used the small pilot series 4mm counter bore to be a spot facing tool on the casting, as the threads are M5. The oil slot shape can be a wave or it can be a shallow Vee over the whole length. For the vertical slide, I am going to copy what a lot of commercial machines did and do the wavey straight line snake thing. I did not put any grooves into/onto the Gib strips or the Vee ways as of yet. I am waiting to see how wet the surface stays from the horizontal oil grooves that I put onto the XY block. When I do the Column however, It will get the wavey oil groove down the Fixed Vee and also on the gib. For the Vee sides, I intend that to be done no more than 1mm deep and no more than 3mm wide. If I can , will make the groove deeper at the top, to act like a reservoir with it ending quite shallow at the bottom, about 0.5mm deep. For the Column lube, I plan on linking the 2 sides with a single lube point.

Plan what yo want to do, and look for / buy the oil fitting /elbows/4mm tube etc before you start so that everything is ready to go at the same time. It can take some thinking through to get the oil holes connected , and it maybe on the smaller machine that you make it flow on the X and Y from one end only to flow through, instead of a centre feed going both ways. No particular way of getting oil to the slides is wrong. You may need to have a couple of external lines around the machine a bit like the DRO cables etc etc.

Neil

When you made the ER32 holder and thread for the nut, did you try it ? So when you bored the 8 deg taper and after threading for the collet nut, did you place the collet you want to use , and place a test bar in that collet to check it's concentricity? I have found a lot of ERcollets do not hold perfectly straight and concentric, some being up to 0.1mm or more at 60mm out from the collet. But then you can actually tap the part to true, and then tighten the collet , and it will generally stay there. I found the Regofix high precision collets to be the best I have found. When making my collet blocks and extensions etc, I make the back end 1st. IE the MT2 or MT3 part , I do 1st and leave the rest of the mandrel parallel, for a sencond op reference. Then set up on the lathe spindle , like Myford, and mark an orientation position near the spindle of the new mandrel, ie to align closely to the start of the thread, for example. Then I set about making the 8 deg inner bore and finally cutting the matching thread for the collet nut. I make the collet nut thread a very good fit. So that it does screw on, but with minimal clearance. So it must always be very clean. I have afew pics of some I have made in my album. My newest one is a MT4 to ER11 holder. I have the MT4 taper done with the M16 thread. It will go into an MT4 to parallel shank holder , and have the ER11 detail turned last. When I made the ER20 to ER11 adapter, I made it in 1 piece. So ruffed out the shapes, and the finished the 8 deg tapers and the M13X1 thread, then Parted if off the piece of bar.

It may be that the best way to make it right, is to start again, and do the back end 1st, and get it to locate onto the spindle correctly. Then set about making the front end of the ER32 detail, thread and 8 deg taper last. You should be able to make the register very close by either just measuring it, or by making a test bar of the same diameter as the register on the nose of your lathe. The important part is that the spindle thread that you screw cut, is concentric to the register diameter , and then face last. Making a generous corner radius on the back of the adapter is good, The register diameter does not have to be really long either. As long as the thread is concentric, it actually can be quite loose, and still function perfectly well, without causing it to be not true. One thing to do check , is the the full thread form in the adapter, does finish before the full thread form of the spindle. I measure from the shoulder to the area where the full form starts to wash out, and go another 1/2 turn further away from the spindle shoulder face. This longer distance, wants to be the minimum bore depth for the start of the Myford spindle thread in your adapter. Then make sure you have thread cut deeper than the full length of the spindle nose, or make sure the run out area (undercut thread relief) is definitely longer than the total spindle nose length. While making the back end, I would just drill a pilot hole as deep as the total length of the part, so on the second op, it is just turning and boring out.

Neil

I found in the shed today a 3phase 220V 1.5 kw motor. So latter I will change the single out for the 3ph and run a VFD to get other speed ranges and to get more RPM on the top end. The other option is to get the 2KW 2900 rpm 220 V 3ph motor and then run it at 100% to a reduced rpm limit, instead of 100% and then going to 85hz on the 1450 rpm motor. On my machine the LH side where I fitted the Y axis DRO is the non gib side. On the front however, it is on the gib side. I don't yet have a good picture showing the access to the stops or the gib locks. On the same side as the handle to lift the column, I have coming a digital scale like what I have put on the quill. So when lifting etc, I will have a reference. I am not sure apart from convenience the advantages of the DRO of the quill on the box.

Out of curiosity, what have people done to get the column square to the run of the table in the for and aft plane? Mine is out by about 0.03 mm to 0.04 mm over the 129 mm quill range.

What oil do people find is best for the gear box head on these Mill? What will help to keep it quiet?

Thanks, Neil

I used the MTech-3 DRO that came with the mill but never installed. I was going to put the Z scale on the quill, but may instead get a longer one for the column instead. The mag tape one seems fine for now for most things that I will be making. It is from here http://www.thedrostore.com/ it is the Promo - 3i set.

The only thing I wish about it is ,if the angle reading was in decimal degrees and stead of minutes and seconds.

I do like the secondary screen and the calc functions etc. It is great using it to make the rest of the parts etc. Well worth the time to install as well.

Neil

With mine , I dripped naptha ( white spirits) down the top of the indicator and also on the under side of the shaft. Then tried to get it to rotate. Once I had it rotating, then I could get the plunger moving up and down. In my case , when it was free and the naptha dripped out the bottom of the spindle, I then dripped baby oil onto it. Just high grade mineral oil. Now it is fine and no issues. I see in the link Clive gave, that the use of thinned ATF. Not sure if it matter if it is mineral or synthetic, but may be worth a try. I would keep actone away from the indicator, and would stay away from WD40 and similar products as well, as suggested above and in the link from Clive. Thanks again and now I know how to take it apart if needed. The accuracy of these indicators, relies on the very close fit of the shaft to the bushes. A great and very useful piece of kit. Mine was new in about 1986 or so, certainly no newer than 1987.

I dont run mine any faster that 200 rpm, as the dial is too quick to see what is happening, depending on the bore size being indicated of course. I just wish that there was a ruby stylus available for them. Does anyone know of such a stylus? Thanks ,

Neil

Install of the X axis.

Onto the X and the choices.

I decided on the front mount so that I did not reduce the total Y axis movement. I also wanted to retain the use of the X axis stops, (Big Thanks to Dean Clarke 2 for that hint and advice), and the newly made central centre gib lock. I also want to be able to remove service the gib screws as well without removing the scale. Although I was intending to mount it all at one end, I did not like the end of the scale being outside the table length. While I was making the tapered nut for the scale, made some extras as stop limiters to prevent the bed from exposing the lube grooves that were added. It has limited the Y axis from the front due to the handle length. The scale can not be read all the way out either, but that is why it has digi's. So an extension will be made down the track as it has about 190mm of Y travel instead of the 235 actual that it did have with no rear bellows. With bellows it is down to 175mm of comfortable movement. To make the numbers easy, I made some spacers from 20mm free cutting Al bar stock, at 1.25 inches long,(31.75mm) . This give enough room for the ring spanner and fingers to move the stops etc. Made new Gid stops from hex head Set screws, and tapered the ends 45deg. Hindsight is I will make some brass pushers with a tapered end a little down the track. New holes needed to be added next to the existing centre stop plate. I was going to use it, but thought if the stop plate moved for what ever reason, then the read head will be moved or possibly get damaged. Hindsight says I should have made the read head mount screws further apart, and would make serving and removal of the scale a lot easier. The spacers are necked down to fit between the large washers holding in place the T nut. When checked, it dialled in the 1st time. Just luck I think. The spacer assembly from the cross table to the read head is made so that it has some spacer shims to get the correct lateral position of the scale. It also allows for clearance to move the assembly back and forth for alignment testing. The X axis scale covers will get connected onto the outer T nut screw positions.
Hope this may help someone else down the track that is looking at installing some form of DRO.

X axis read head mount and bracket assembly

X axis Left Hand end support and mounting T nut.

Lastly my junk catcher while making the brackets and other pieces as it went along. Now thinking of making something more user friendly and and a bit easier on the eyes as well.

Neil

I installed the glass scales on the X and Y axis.

I did the Y axis 1st. I put a spring clamp on the read head to the ali frame to keep it true to the spacer shims. Attached the supplied Ali bracket to the underneath side of the read head. With the slide covers removed, moved the Y all the way to the column. Used a set of button spacers to get the approx distance from the bottom of the bracket to the casting , with about a 1.5mm gap or so. The checked the scale for parallel. So the Y axis can move with the read head as well due to the clearance gap. Using 1 indicator on the top surface and another on the outside of the scale makes for short work to align. After establishing the correct space size, then made some from Ali bar, but with 1 drilled 5mm as a pivot reference end, front mount, and then drilled the back one with a 5.5 clearance hole in-case of any discrepancies on the hole centres. This becomes the dummy run in mounting the read head support as well. Then drill and tap into the casting base 2 X M5 . In my case I turned a pin that was close in size to the bracket slot, to get a centre punch mark centred on the slots.Rechecked the vertical alignment, and leave the indicator over the back of the scale. ( Reference for reassembly, place the indicator 10mm or so forwards of the cap screw position ) . Now ready for assembly, it is important to remove the securing screws from the supplied spacer shims, but leave the spacer in place, and I used a spring clamp to keep it all together still. Remember to degrease and clean the side of the casting and the back of the mount bracket.I loosened off the back end screw till it was almost undone, removed front screw and spacer.(needed to clean casting and back of mount) .Put a very small amount of wax on the M5 capscrews for the mounting bracket. Get some epoxy putty , so cut off about 20mm length,and knead till it is all uniform and starts to get quite pliable like plasticine. Made 2 oval loops with the putty and put then around the M5 screw tapped holes where the mount is to go. Place the front spacer into place and just start the M5 screw. Now the juggle. Start the 2 M5 screws with the washers on, then carefully press against the bracket towards the fitted position. Do up the slack of the 2 mount bracket screws, also do up the slack of the front and rear fixing screws of the scale. The read head should be centred to the scale laterally all the time. This is VERY IMPORTANT. The fixed ends should be done up nearly tight and just the slack taken on the read head. Remove the spring clamp and the test the alignment. The reference indicator should be on zero or very close to it, and in my case was less than 0.04mm of total error front to back and side to side. I use one hand to turn the Y axis handle, and the other to help support the read head bracket assembly. The putty goes off quite quickly and is reasonably firmish. At any rate, did not want any unwanted movement. There is drag due to the spacers still being in place. I did not want to remove them early and then find I could not get them back in easily. It was correct on the 1st pass so we had beginners luck. I tightened the scale holding screws tight, rechecked for alignment. Let is sit for 1 hour to cure. Tightened the bracket screws a little more. Removed the spacer shims and all is good. The Y axis scale covers will get connected onto the outer M5 screw positions with a piece of angle Ali angle.The 2 inner M5 screws will not be disturbed.

Interesting. I was going to by the adjustable angle plate. But so far have not had a need for one. I do have an adjustable tiling vice, but that was before I bought a mill, and use it just on the drill press. That is where I still thing it is best suited. So tonight I had a job where i need the holes to be very parallel to the front face, but the side ways position was not so important. I used a vice in a vice, so that I could run the quill up the side of the fixed jaw with a work piece in the second vice and torqued up. When I was happy with the alignment then set to and did a test piece.I then measured the test piece and was very happy. My setup was not as easy to accurately set as a sine vice, but is reasonably compact. With mill drills, the lower the column the more rigid the set up. And ultimately a more happier modeller as well.

The latest round is they call a cell phone, and land lines, just long enough to register a missed call. Sometimes they are so short, the phone does not actually ring. If you call the missed number back,you will be charged a fee on your phone bill. And because you called the number back, the phone companies won't easily refund your lost money.

Neil

Yeah the fittings are just commercial air fittings. The tubing is the nylon high pressure for grease. I used 6mm thread grease nipple on the other end. There is also a slim series of connectors, but they are more difficult to obtain out here.Also the smaller fittings are not pushfit, but are the nut and ferrule type . Lucky I had access to another mill, but you can do the slots with a metal strip clamped to the bed, and use it as a guide as you follow along the edge to make nice straight grooves with a dremel or what ever rotary tool you have. As long as the drill is sharp, like a split point sharpened drill, it will drill through the cast iron quite quickly just with a battery pistol drill. On the angled holes in the side of the casting, I used a 13mm drill as a starting drill, and put a piece of 1mm sheet metal at the bottom of the drill. It stops it digging into the very bottom of the casting. Hindsight, I should have made a support sleeve to go around the outside of the drill as a guide. It would have made starting the hole at the correct height a lot better.

Neil