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Is the main spring sticking?

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Sam Stones31/05/2011 03:15:50
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Gentlemen,

Although my skeleton clock has been running for many hours, there have been one or two occasions when it has stopped for no obvious reason. There have also been occasions when there is an abrupt rumble coming from the main spring. Although not clearly visible in this picture, for an idea of spring size, this barrel is about 60mm diameter, and 50mm wide.
 

There is ample sideways clearance for the spring inside the barrel.
 
I conclude that the main spring is sticking to itself thus holding back the necessary driving torque. A sort of stick-friction, or perhaps capillary action.
In the initial `start-up’ a couple of weeks ago, I ran some sewing-machine oil onto the edges of the spring, and now wonder if the spring should be lubricated or washed in petrol and left relatively dry.
 
There is also the possibility that over the 30 or so years the clock stood around, parts of the spring rusted.
 
What are your thoughts?
 
Sam
Stephen Benson31/05/2011 09:50:09
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 Well on my first home made clock I had made all the pivots too precise a fit and I had to open up all the holes the old adage "if it rattles it will go" proved true in my case. Although you may of adopted the modern trend of using mini ball bearings in which case disregard all I have said.

Edited By Stephen Benson on 31/05/2011 09:50:41

Richard Parsons31/05/2011 17:44:09
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Sam Caution if you are using ball races it is all too easy get the gears ‘lumping’ by getting the gears too close together.


It might be a good idea to ‘let the spring down’, take it out and examine it having a good look for rust and rough surfaces. As you wind the spring up the surfaces can gripe instead of sliding over each other.


All the best


Dick

NJH31/05/2011 19:03:57
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Hi Sam
 
I believe it is usual to apply some oil to the edges of the spring as you say you have.
 
A 2" wide spring  - that is a big beastie - if you are going to remove it do you have a spring winder for  when you come to replace it?
 
Regards
 
Norman

Edited By NJH on 31/05/2011 19:06:42

Edited By NJH on 31/05/2011 19:08:48

Sam Stones01/06/2011 01:38:17
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Hi Stephen, Dick, and Norman,

Thanks for your comments about using ball races, and about handling the main spring.

Given more time and a proper workshop, I would be very tempted to fit ball races into the clock. If you know of Rex Swensen (Sydney, Australia), he is a strong advocate of fitting them into clocks, and has offered several important engineering ideas to support his work. His notes can be seen in another forum.

As for removing the main spring, I can only offer the following comments.

Your word `gripe’ Dick, certainly describes the brief whirling sound the spring makes, as it unblocks itself. I had thought that this would have been fixed with oil!?

When I bought it from Messrs E E Gray of Clerkenwell, a London supplier back in the 70's, I simply inserted it (halfway) into the barrel before cutting it free from the wire binding. That’s where it has been ever since, and has never been unwound. At this point in time, I would not be able to tackle the exercise of removing it alone. Perhaps I should take it to a clock maker who should have a spring winder?

As a general warning to anyone who doesn’t know, there is still a lot of `power’ left in a spring of this kind. I understand that some of this power is often produced by the spring being initially manufactured with a partial curve in the opposite direction to the way it is eventually coiled in use.

I’m also left wondering what lubricant would best suit this situation, and for long term use. I know of lubricants containing a suspension of micro-fine PTFE (Teflon) particles.

Would this be a better bet?

Thanks again,

Sam

NJH01/06/2011 10:13:28
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Hi Sam
 
I think for a one off I would seek out a clockmaker and let him carry out the exercise with safety. Who knows, when he sees the quality of your work you may have all sorts of interesting conversations! I expect he might also be able to supply a small quantity of clock oil - you won't need much! If you do feel the need to access horological bits a vast horde can be found here Chapter 10 lists various lubricants. I note that they list spring winders but no stock - and no prices shown either!
I don't think you need any lubricant other than the standard clock oil. I recently worked on a clock which had it's last service 100 years ago - so good old oil worked OK for that!
 
All the best
 
Norman

Edited By NJH on 01/06/2011 10:15:07

john jennings 101/06/2011 11:22:25
69 forum posts
I tried Norman's link to Meadows and Passmore's online store.
 
The good news is that a mains spring winder is available to order:
The bad news is that it is priced at £600!
 
Another avenue is to make one, John Wilding has a design in his "How to repair Antique Clocks" Volume 2. (a lot of other clock tools as well).
 
all the best
 
John
 
 

Richard Parsons01/06/2011 18:16:00
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645 forum posts
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Sam - I fear the griping is caused by the dreaded ‘Tin Worm’ (Rust). Let the ‘spring down’ by removing the escapement, but watch it as it can run fast.

Remove the spring from the casing and inspect it. If the spring is very bad try to get a new one. You can try to remove the rust with a rust remover (or WD40 and a wire brush) clean up with 350 grit paper (the stuff car bodgers use on body work) and finish with the finest paper (and oil) you can get. Remember the final polish is done with the oil & spent grit on the spring using the back of the paper. I would then re-blue it.

The Gizmo for £600 is the professional unit for using all day every day. I have attached two pages from ‘Practical Clock Repairing Donald de Carle FBHI’. He shows you how to reload a spring. The last time I did one I used the Myford, a mole wrench (self locking tongs) onto the jaw to stop ‘run back’ and a small pate tin -smaller than the spring’s drum with a slot cut down one side (A good thick rag is just as good.)

Good Luck

Dick
Ps i used s Jubelee clip to hold the spring tight  

 


Edited By Richard Parsons on 01/06/2011 18:18:28

Stephen Benson01/06/2011 18:28:29
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203 forum posts
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I have made my own spring winder it is to John Wildings design modified so that I can use European style cylinder spring retainers, the best of both designs I think
You can see it in action on my website
But if you have a lathe you can also use that with a bit of fiddlerling

Edited By Stephen Benson on 01/06/2011 18:31:17

Edited By Stephen Benson on 01/06/2011 18:31:50

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