Good quality medium size lathe

As a bit of a thought experiment, I was curious what high quality medium sized lathes exist.

I have an axminster SC2 lathe and the fit and finish aren't great - now I've tightened everything up a bit, it's not super bad, but everything has slightly more movement/wiggle than one might like.

This is a thought experiment because I need to learn my craft a little on the one I have before I really consider upgrading.

By "Medium sized", I mean the next size up from the Sherline/Cowells ones, something like the SC4 lathe..

I think its pretty well documented that the same factory in china is making lots of lathes for Arc, Axminster, Clarke and maybe warco, so I assume they are all of a similar quality.

Other than things like the Wabeco, is there anything in the next 'quality bracket' up? I see folks on youtube using things like the Precision Matthews lathes, but they seem like they are US only.

When on the shop floor in the 1970s, I used Elliots, Wyverns, Colchesters, Harrisons, Binns & Berrys, Boxfords plus others I can't remember.

As an amateur, I've had an Emco Unimat 3, a Myford Speed 10, and currently have a Warco WM250V and a Sieg C0.

I think the Warco is of good enough 'quality' for any work I might want to do. I put the Q word in quotes because I doubt everybody understands it the same way. As far as I'm concerned the main drawbacks of the machine are that it doesn't have a proper feed and screwcutting gearbox, so changing screwthread or feedrate ranges is a fag, as is chuck changing. There are also some traps for the unwary that could possibly damage the machine. This is a reflection of the choices that had to be made to keep the price down - but there is no reflection on 'quality' - the reliability, accuracy or soundness of its build. I don't know about other brands built in the same factory.

What comes out of your workshop is hugely more important than what you've got in there.

Myford ML10

Emco 5

Hobbymat MD65

Proxxon PD230/250

Wabeco 4000

Ceriani david

Toyo/Manix/Sakai/Record ML210

Edited By Hollowpoint on 27/01/2021 22:53:57

Edited By Hollowpoint on 27/01/2021 22:55:58

I share Mick's concern about the Q word! A little extreme perhaps, but I'd go so far as to suggest no engineer should use it unless it's defined by a specification. On it's own 'quality' is as meaningless as 'nice' or 'decent'.

Professionals define quality by considering the heavenly twins: "Fit for Purpose" and "Value for Money". To them buying tools that are better than 'good enough' is an egregious sin if it wastes money that could be better spent on something else. (An engineer does for a pound what any fool can do for a guinea.)

"Fit for Purpose" and "Value for Money" require purchasers to think carefully about their budget and what the machine is for. Mick's examples cover both ends of the rainbow. On a shop floor where down-time costs the owner money it's worth investing in heavy, continuously rated machines made to do protracted accurate work. The machine is required to pay for itself, and much depends on the accountant! In a home workshop almost any lathe in reasonable condition with the necessary accessories will produce acceptable results in skilled patient hands, and the machine doesn't have to make a profit. No need to satisfy an accountant, though wives can be even more troublesome!

To add to Hollowpoint's list, you might investigate Far Eastern lathes sold to industry rather than the made down to a price hobby equipment most of us go for. These higher specification machines aren't widely advertised and tend to be Price on Application but have a look at Buck and Hickman and Chester Machine Tools. I don't know of any hobbyists who have gone this route because it's so expensive. Expect 5 to 20 times dearer than hobby machines.

Generally high specification kit is much more costly. Be prepared for shocking prices! Myford will sell you a new Connoisseur for £9050 + VAT and carriage. This is more money than I care to spend on a hobby, so it fails my 'Value for Money' test. Last time I saw a second-hand Schaublin it was £12000 for a plain lathe, i.e no screw-cutting. The superb Schaublin fails my 'Fit for purpose' AND 'Value for Money' test, not because it's a poorly made heap of junk but because it doesn't do what I need and is way over my budget.

For the time being I suggest sticking with what you have. Learn from it. Does it do what you need or does it have intolerable shortcomings? Once experience reveals the answer, it's much easier to define exactly what 'Fit for purpose' means in your workshop, and whether or not it's worth spending money to fix it. Much easier to consider a replacement lathe when armed with facts. Who knows - the answer might be CNC rather than manual equipment.

Beware of perfectionism, in the absence of big money or a good dollop of luck, it can lead to perpetual disappointment. Nothing is 'good enough' for the man who can't compromise and hobbies are meant to be enjoyed. However, personality matters. My approach to making things is distinctly utilitarian. I don't care much about warty tools provided they do what I want. Others are irritated beyond measure by tools with shortcomings. Excellent craftsmen are often perfectionists who can't do their best unless the workshop is clean and tidy, tools are neatly organised and ready to go, stock catalogued, zero rust, machines lubed and properly adjusted, and nothing broken or worn. Their notion of 'Fit for purpose' is different to mine, and they're not wrong! Are you like them or me?

At the moment there is an affordable way of owning an industrial grade machine. Many ex-education and professional manual machines are no longer 'fit for purpose' in a world that's shifted emphatically to CNC. Industry are dumping them and the much reduced need to train manual machinists has resulted in super-duper machines being sold at bargain prices, well below their original cost, and often in excellent condition. Contrasts sharply with the same class of machine 30 years ago, when they were often only sold second-hand when 'beyond economic repair', or were too expensive for hobbyists.

Dave

Another factor for the amateur is the additional weight and bulk of professional machines; how many basement workshops are housing a machine tool which will be a real problem to remove?