Chester Craftsman Lathe

Hi------I have a Chester Craftsman Lathe which I have only recently ( past few years ) been able to fully commission due to Divorce, house moving, retirement etc.........so it's well out of any guarantee etc......Up to now I've only ever used it for plain turning by hand for small jobs, so the tumbler gear has always been in neutral and the auto feed never engaged.....

To-day I tried to get the fine feed to work but I found that the combined 125 / 127 gear wheel and the matching tumbler feed gear wheels wont engage !!

After washing all the pres. grease off and air - blast dried I saw that the two sets of teeth were different !!..........not by much but definitely different so naturally wont engage..

Any one else had this at all ??---- I've posted this on a Friday for a chance to maybe get some help.......I'll phone Chester on Monday for their take on this..

Thanks in advance

Alan nR

As far as i know, the Chester Craftsman is a Metric Machine., like my Engineers ToolRoom BL12-24. (The Warco BH600 could be obtained in Imperial or Metric form)

The Changewheels are 1.5 Mod, and all should be the same Module.

The "standard" pinion below the Tumbler Reverse, is 40T. My machine (which is effectively the same machine) has two alternatives for this, a 30T and 32T. Although the Metric Thread Chart only calls for the 32T for some pitches.

My machine has a 3 mm pitch Leadscrew, but the Operator's Manual shows a 30T used for some pitches on a machine with a 8 tpi Leadscrew.

The banjo is locked by:

A Capscrew, which clamps it around the input to the Norton gearbox, and by

A M8 nut and stud, in a radial slot, just below..

The input to the Norton box carries a 40T and a spacer. Their position on the shaft can be exchanged depending on whether you need to use the 120/127T as an Idler or as a compound. gear.

Don't lose the key!

The Idler stud for the 120/127t compound gear is clamped to the Banjo by a nut at the back of the Banjo, (expect greasy hands when you access it) so that it can be moved along the straight slot in the Banjo.

In this way, the 120/127T can be meshed with the pinion below the Tumbler reverse (30 / 32 40) and the 40T Norton input gear.

The banjo is rotated around the Nioton box input, and the 120/127T compound Idler is moved along the straight slot, to mesh the gears correctly. I run a sheet of paper into each mesh, before clamping up, to ensure that there is backlash, and minimal noise. The 120/127T does tend to "ring" though.

The thought comes to me that by using the 30T below the tumbler reverse would produce a finer feed that that using the 40T. (0.09/rev vs 0.12mm /rev , or 0.0035/rev vs 0.0047 imches/rev). For most thread cutting the 40T would need to be in place..

My manual shows a Screwcutting / Feeds chart for a machine with a 8 tpi Leadscrew, although the plate attached to the machine is correct for the 3mm pitch Leadscrew.

HTH

Howard

Many thanks indeed Howard for that informative reply..........I have since taken all the gear wheels concerned off the lathe--- wash & "Blow-dried" and checked each one carefully..........Here are the findings}-----

1) The Headstock mainshaft gear profile matches and engages that of the tumble arrangement and they engage with the one below the tumble.....

2) The compound wheel gears profile matches and engages with the Norton Gearbox drive input gear wheel and the idler.....

BUT--------

1) and 2) will not engage to one another as they have a different profile.....That difference is quite noticeable when offered to one another.

How do I post a photo on here ??

I'll give Chester a call on Monday to see what they have to say.......In the meantime I've sourced a few local Companies that will make new gears to pattern......just in case !!

Many thanks indeed

Alan R

Alan, the link below will take you to a thread describing how to post images.

**LINK**

Gray

Alan,

I think that I got it wrong, in that the Changewheels are 1.25 Mod (Got confused with the pinion for the Saddle Feed which is 1.5 Mod.)

Whereabouts are you based?

Possibly a member of a local Model Engineering Club would be willing to make up gears for you.

It seems strange that the 120/127 and the Norton input 40T mesh O K, but not with the pinion under the Tumbler Reverse. That sounds as if the machine has been oddball from new, as if half the wheels are 1.25 Mod, and the others something else, such a 1 Mod, if finer pitch, or 1.5 Mod if coarser..

The pinion beneath the Tumbler Reverse should be: 52.5mm diameter if 40T, (As should the 40T input to the Norton box) ; 42.5mm diameter if a 32T ; and 40mm diameter if a 30T.

If you P M me with your E mail address, I'll send you a picture of my set up, with an extra explanation.

Howard

Have just gone into the shop and taken a shot of my gear set up.

The gear that meshes with the Tumbler Reverse should be a compound gear. Have not checked, but it could be that this compound gear has different pitches for the inner and outer gears.

The spindle for this compound gear has a grease nipple on the outer end, and retains the compound gear with a large nut and washer.

It will be impossible to bring the 120/127T into mesh with the inner gear, (meshing with the Tumbler Reverse).

The outer gear can be either the 40T or 32T, or 30T pinions which I mentioned previously. These will be 1.25 Mod to mesh with the 120/127T and the 40T Norton input gears.

If these three pinions are missing then, hopefully, Chester can supply, and maybe the key that connects the 40 or 32 or 30 to the one meshing with the tumbler reverse..

H T H

Howard

PS Have you got the operator manuals (two) with the lathe?  If not, maybe,  Chester may be able to supply these, also.

Edited By Howard Lewis on 02/02/2019 13:14:17

Edited By Howard Lewis on 02/02/2019 13:15:00

In the thread milling on the craftsman lathe I put a link to the manual. Parts 278 and 279, described as gears, are drawn with different tooth profiles. They are both keyed onto a short stub shaft on the tumbler assembly.

Martin C

Hello everyone !!

Well, that was good bit of sleuth work by all concerned and thank you one and all for your input.......I also have just spent some time in the workshop and looked at things from a new perspective .......Initially I mistook Howards entry of }-- 30, 32 / 40 as meaning a choice of ONE of those numbers.......That's how lathes in the past have been for me ----- and with ALL gear wheels being of the same DP ( old habits die hard !!)......

To-day I have found that we actually have 2 compound set-ups ie}--- the short keyed shaft under the tumblers which I now have 2 wheels on ( I course and 1 fine toothed 40T --- just bear with me !! )...The coarse is driven by the mainshaft and tumblers and keyed to the fine which in turn now meshes with the 127 only and then the 40T on the Norton box.......

So we got there in the end ---- and Howard's latest entry cross-checks this as well ----Hoo-ray !!

HOWARD, I only have the Spare Parts manual--- is there another one then ?? I'll PM you on Sunday...

GRAY--- Haven't forgotten you---thanks for the link, I'll give it a go later on....

MARTIN, thanks for that info--- most useful..

PS}--- A bit of background to this }---- I bought the lathe approx 10 years ago--it was delivered in a crate to my front door---Pre-Divorce activities --- Divorce-----Move house twice----Child Access problems----heavy maintenance payments = no hobby time---crate still not opened---3 years ago lathe set up for basic turning only ( Part of self-employed ) -- last month decided to use auto feed ---- and here we are to-day.....( and I found a Chinese dog-end in the crate !!)....So it's virtually brand new----I had the apron gearbox apart for major cleaning ( gears heavilly rusted etc ) end of last year...I'm making a 5c collet drawbar and holder for it.....

Edited By Alan Redgrave on 02/02/2019 16:49:57

It may be possibkecto find the equivalent lathe on grizzly.com in the USA. They have usually got better manuals than the UK.

Martin C

Alan

I've come across this on other lathes. The mainshaft gear meshes with the tumbler gears and the tumbler gears drive a gear below, but are different pitch to the rest of the gear train. On the lathe I had, the gear below the tumbler was on one end of a short sleeve, and the appropriate gear (30, 32 or 40 in your case) to mesh with the rest of the train was fitted on the other end of the sleeve.

Thats how its done of my Denford synchro when the metric/imperial translation gearing is in place. The translation gearing including the 127/135T gear is 18DP and the tumblers are 16DP Its done like this on the Denford because there just isn't space to fit a 16DP 127/135T gear driving to a 48T gear on the screwcutting box.

Hurrah!

You got there in the end, so you are ready to be up and running for power feeds,or screwcutting.

My lathe arrived with two A4 "books" labelled as "BL12/24 or BL12/37", " Operating Manual" and the other as "Elevation View"

Hopefully, Chester will be able to provide you with an Operating Manual. If not there must be a way of photo copying all 14 double sided pages.

The latter is the spare parts list. The Operating Manual, contains the instructions, wiring diagrams and trouble shooting, written in some rather quaint English!

If you still have the Apron off, you may want to do what i did, and make up a plastic bung for one of the rather large holes in the casing. Whilst repairing a bad mistake on my part, the hole was blocked with nylon bung that I turned up, using the Top Slide for a feed! This raises the oil level in the Apron, (and stops oil leaking out into the chip tray, and improves the oil supply to the gears and bearings.

Having had a smash up which damaged the Rack, among other things, I removed the rack, and the first four teeth. This means that the pinion disengages just before the Saddle hits the Headstock. It needs a good tug, sometimes to re-engage the pinion with the shortened rack, but that is worth it compared to the cost and effort of a collision, believe me!

My lathe featured in one of the earlier "One Man and His Lathe" articles in MEW, and in another about "Minor Lathe Mods" One of these mentioned that above the Cross Slide Handwheel there is a ball oiler which is inaccessible, and relates how it was removed, plugged and a new ball oiler fitted where it was accessible.

Not sure where your Thread Indicator Dial is located. I moved mine from the Headstock side of the Apron to the Tailstock side, but stripped it and modified the shape of the casing to clear the rear Leadscrew / Feedshaft bearing housing..

Also, I made the bolt in the Fixed Steady captive, again the subject of another article in M E W. It is a simple mod, which avoids the frustration of trying to hold the escapee bolt in place while the nut is fitted.

The Mandrel thread had me foxed for a while, did not seem to be Metric or Imperial, but eventually found that it is 2.25 inch x 8 tpi Whit form.

If you have a quartz halogen 24 volt 50 watt worklight, the bulbs will last longer if you strip it, remove the reflector, and file a couple of 5/16 wide/deep slots diametrically opposed, to allow air flow for ventilation.

A while ago, I thought that I had bad problems of the primary belt slipping. It actually turned out that the dimple in the shaft moving the countershaft within the Headstock was too shallow. The lever was moving full travel, but the countershaft was not. A deeper dimple, allowing the grubscrew to engage more, cured the problem The difficult bit was getting the thread of the pivot bolt to pick up again, when reassembling the linkage. A screwdriver between the bolt head and the casing, whilst rotating the bolt, provided a the cure.

I took a photo of the changewheel /feeds plate, enlarged it to A4 and laminated it. As part of our PM correspondence, I'll send it to you.

H T H

Howard

You want Grizzly manual for G9249 it has a clear picture of the drive train. Easily found online.

Martin C

grizzly-g9249 

Edited By Martin Connelly on 02/02/2019 17:58:54

Hello MARTIN,

Yes,that was just what I needed-----it's downloaded ok and makes fascinating and useful reading..

Many thanks indeed

Alan R

In case the spare parts numbers are different, Chester's own manual is on their forum at **LINK** - just search for "Craftsman" (or "Manual" which is why I stumbled across it whilst searching for a different one).

Brian

The Grizzly manual is better illustrated and clearer (especially the pictures) than the obviously photocopied one that came with my lathe.

BUT

Some of the Changewheel trains shown are quite different from (in some cases, the reverse of ) those in my manual, or on the plate on the machine.

Also, the charts, ON SCREEN, (have not looked at the PDFs) do not show numbers, but "?,% (,)" and so on.

Would down load (all 70 pages!) for the pictures but obviously stick with the gear trains shown on your machine.

Howard

Hi Alan,

This link is for another Operators manual which seems to be the same as the Craftsman. **LINK**

I have spot checked the parts list with the Craftsman and the part numbers seem to be the same. Thing that puzzles me with the Grizzly g9249 and the BT1337G1 is that they say 37" (940mm) between centres where as the craftsman is 23" (570mm) . This is despite the bed part number being the same in all three parts lists

Chester could sure do with rewriting the manual, it is terrible.

Adrian

The discrepancy arises because the lathe was offered as either a 24 inch centre version ( ie Warco BH600 ) or a 37 inch centre version ( i e Warco BH900 ). The Grizzly manual is ostensibly for the long bed version, but that will not affect anything at the Headstock end about the gearing; just the length of the Leadscrew, Power Feed shaft and the Switch shaft.

Warco also offered them as either Imperial or Metric machines, so probably the machines destined for North America would have been Imperial.

The Operators Manual for my BL12-24 (which also refers to the BL12/37 ), shows a Threads / Feeds chart which is obviously for a machine with a 8 tpi Leadscrew, whereas the plate on my dual dialled (actually Metric) Lathe is correct for a 3mm pitch Leadscrew.

Howard