Is there a Chemist in the House ? ...
Michael Gilligan | 06/12/2018 10:07:43 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | I need to make a small leaf spring, and Phosphor Bronze would seem the most appropriate material. The original component was 0.020" thick, but 0.5mm should be near enough Material is available, but not inexpensive; so I thought I might see if I had anything in my stock of offcuts and salvage. This brings the problem of identification. An internet search disclosed one helpful 'Distinguishing Test' published in 1930 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OigDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92 I am guessing that this detects the Phosphorous content; so the questions are:
Thanks MichaelG. Edited By Michael Gilligan on 06/12/2018 10:08:08 |
Phil Boyland | 06/12/2018 12:56:52 |
![]() 49 forum posts 13 photos | If you can file some off and post it I can check the chemical composition on our electron microscope in work for you. All for free |
Michael Gilligan | 06/12/2018 13:12:08 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Phil Boyland on 06/12/2018 12:56:52:
If you can file some off and post it I can check the chemical composition on our electron microscope in work for you. All for free . Phil, That's an amazing offer ... Many thanks I will send you a personal message later today. MichaelG. |
Fowlers Fury | 06/12/2018 13:13:21 |
![]() 446 forum posts 88 photos | I've relied on a quick test before now, no guarantee of its infalibility. |
SillyOldDuffer | 06/12/2018 13:28:56 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | I've got an old Chemistry Book on Qualitative Inorganic Analysis that's good on test tube methods: guess what - it's nowhere to be found! From first principles though, a solution of Ferric Chloride with Hydrochloric Acid would dissolve copper. (Ferric Chloride is used to etch printed circuit boards.) I guess the solution removes a layer of Copper from the test alloy and in the process creates a complex mix of ions. Then the Iron ions react with any exposed Phosphorous to form something like Iron Phosphate. Iron Phosphate is the blue-black layer left by some rust treatments. Phil's electron microscope is the bees knees! Test tube analysis was on the way out back when I was at school with Noah. Although many basic chemical tests are easy, others required a lot of skill. I'm always amazed at what people achieved in the past with simple equipment and clever technique. We truly stand on the shoulders of giants. Dave |
Michael Gilligan | 06/12/2018 13:36:46 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Thanks to FF and S.O.D. Although Phil's offer obviously trumps everything, it would be good to continue this discussion so that we have a DIY answer available for next time. MichaelG. |
Michael Gilligan | 06/12/2018 13:45:28 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/12/2018 13:28:56:
... Then the Iron ions react with any exposed Phosphorous to form something like Iron Phosphate. Iron Phosphate is the blue-black layer left by some rust treatments. . Yes, that was my thinking ... like Jenolite treatment, but with all the right chemicals in all the wrong places ! MichaelG. |
Phil Boyland | 06/12/2018 14:29:27 |
![]() 49 forum posts 13 photos | Ok cool, will look out for a message. Composition can be measured by measuring the x-rays coming off the sample whilst it's bombarded with electrons. This is a useful by product of the electron stream being used to create an image. Will send you a few screenshots too if you like as it always looks fascinating.......well to me at least. Science nerd!! |
Pete Rimmer | 06/12/2018 19:27:05 |
1486 forum posts 105 photos | is that similar to how the zapper guns work that the scrap yard use? |
Phil Boyland | 07/12/2018 07:48:53 |
![]() 49 forum posts 13 photos | I think they work on X Ray fluorescence principle(XRF) where as I am working on the Energy Dispersive X ray principle(EDX). I don't user the former, but you can only look at a whole sample with XRF so if you have several different materials present, it would not tell you the alloy just a % of the elements present that you would not be able to classify. This is more suited to samples you know already are only one material. With EDX you can pin point a particular particle in a sample and get its composition. Excellent for jumbled up metallic debris in a engine filter for example.. |
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