Tender locos for a beginner?

Do you want to "build & run" or "buy & run" ? That is the question (or at least one of them)

Some of our members are far more interested in getting up and running live-steam engines than building them Dave (sometimes for very practical reasons) - so "ready built" is true in G3 too. At one time that meant commissioning a loco build from a semi-professional who probably batch built two or three engines to pre-order - and then you waited a year or two for delivery.

These days, the Chinese essentially provide the same service but batch build in a minimum order quantity of 50.

Today, there are over a hundred Gauge '3' Britannia's rumoured to be out there in the wild and you can buy a G3 RTR 4MT for less than £3.5k and a G3 Duchess for under £6K. Sounds expensive, until you look at the size and quality of the engine and work out the hourly rate if you were to build one.

I can't remember what the G3 GWR 14XX cost now but it was about on par with a high-end (scale) 16mm loco. So if someone wants to run G3 live steam without actually building an engine, they've always been able to do that - and it's even easier today.

But for many there is still great satisfaction in actually building and running our own engines. It takes a lot more time and effort but in some ways that the whole point. Something about it 'being the journey and not the destination' comes to mind. Of course, watching someone else steaming their brand new Brit, while you are still a very long way off ever finishing your 3-cylinder Pacific does make you a bit envious sometimes.

Depends on what you enjoy doing most.

Regards,

IanT

Or just build?

I can't abide club politics so it's road steam for me.

All the Clock makers, Stationary Engine builders, Motor Bike restorers, Tool makers, Aircraft Modellers (and indeed) Traction Engine builders have no idea what you are referring to Dave - because they don't need tracks to run on.

IanT

Well funnily enough my first thought was for a traction engine but was steered quite away from it by Jacquie at Blackgates as being overall a degree more challenging than a locomotive. I know absolutely nothing about traction engines, though - so I don't think it's a realistic option for me.

Annoyingly, I signed up for model engineer subscription to get back issues to look at Ayesha II - but it's in Adobe Flash I don't have access to that, so it was all a bit of a waste

Well no actually. If you methodically read all the magazine starting as far back as they go you will learn all you need to know about model engineering. The detailed instructions on one locomotive equally apply almost 90%% to another plus you pick up tips that apply to all sorts of other things. My school didn't do metalwork classes but when I first got to use a lathe at work all I needed to be told after years of reading ME was the trick that a S&B model A has an on/off switch on the apron.

Sorry no, it's not a waste because it's ME, it's a waste because I can't actually view the content I paid for!

I've managed to get hold of some build articles for Ayesha II and am working through them.

Is it worth me paying for old bound volumes of (Vols. 97-101) of M.E. to check out the Maid of Kent? is the collateral information/articles in those magazines worthwhile even if I don't choose to build the Maid?

Well, after doing some research and calling around I'm somewhat aghast at the cost of pre-made boilers. There's less than 20% cost difference between a 5" Maid of Kent boiler, and a 2.5" Ayesha boiler from all the suppliers I contacted - shocking really! I guess that is because it's labour intensive, in addition to requiring expensive materials.

Honestly, it feels quite enough to scupper my plans entirely - twice the cost of my lathe for 'just' a boiler!?

Ayesha is not a common boiler and extra time will be spent on preparing and ordering before the build.

Yes, of course William. A pre-built boiler is exactly like a pre-built loco - you have to pay for someone's labour, facilities and knowledge. If you build the boiler yourself, it will just be the cost of materials and equipment.

But if you are going to build your own boiler - the 2.5" one would be a much safer bet than the 5" unless you can find a very helpful experienced 'helper' at your local MES.

Regards,

IanT

I think I would have been prepared to pay a little over the odds for a pre-made boiler, but not that much. If I'm going to roll the dice on my own boiler (I have a friend who has silver soldered before, and the model engineering club too), then I think it would make sense to make my stakes slightly lower than the £700+ for a 5" boiler.

I've sent a few more questions to John on the N25GA.org about Ayesha II but overall I'm quite satisfied with that option. I only live about a mile away from LBSC's home in Purley Oaks, I'm going to Beachy Head tomorrow and the LBSCR was my first railway obsession.

I think, I am decided. Thank you all! I will start a thread on the commencement of construction. Thank you again!

That's a bit harsh!

+1 on Tony's viewpoint. If after 4 forum pages the OP has not made a decision about what to build, they simply need to do more of their OWN research. Plenty of photos, articles,etc on the web - easier than ever to research locomotives, and let's not forget libraries and used/new book vendors.

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Unfortunately all of my local clubs have been shut since lockdown, so I don't have the benefit of a group of people I can talk to face to face. This forum, for now, _IS_ my local club and I was asking for advice. I'm very sorry if this has made anyone upset, but they are free to simply ignore this thread?

I have found it incredibly helpful to understand my options, particularly around the choice of locomotive and gauge. Thank you all who have contributed.

William, or anyone else, if you are prepared to accept Zoom as face to face I can give you a link to the Exeter club Friday morning 10am chat which is our replacement for the weekly tea-at-the-track or coffee-at-the-club. You do have to provide your own bacon butties though which has been the big downside of lockdown.

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Thank you Bazyle, PM sent. Thank you too BR - I think for choice, I'm basically sorted.

In additon to this thread I've spent a long time reading Mr. Greenly's "Model Railways" and "Model Steam Locomotives" and I am thoroughly convinced to go with 2-1/2" - and less worried about specific prototypical accuracy a long as there is a tinplate-style visual impressionism. I have found a new home to move into and the purchase is in progress. The house itself also has workshop adjacent to a flat 100' x 50' garden which is perfect for a 2-1/2" Gauge railway.

Unless something dramatic occurs to change my mind between now and when I'm moved and have the workshop set up, I will be embarking on an Sir Ironside, a 2-1/2" gauge "King Arthur"-class loco. It is what I really want! If I run into major issues, I will re-try with Ayesha II - maybe this is a benefit of 2-1/2", that I could financially sustain two part built locos!

It is worth noting that my missus would prefer me to build a 5" Gauge loco and run it at the large 5" track at Beech Hurst (5 minutes drive) rather than taking over part of the garden. The Sussex Miniature Locomotive Society appears to be mostly a group of people who come together to run 5" trains for the public, rather than a traditional MES. If this ends up coming to pass (who'd have thought!?) - then it'll be a Maid of Kent (internal stephenson's valve gear) or a King Arthur if I can find one.

Cheers,

Edited By William Ayerst on 31/01/2021 21:39:08

Coming full circle to your original question - a tender loco for beginners, and even though you have already made your mind up, others may come across this thread looking for advice on a beginners 5" gauge tender locomotive, so I thought that I would throw my tuppence in.

Don Young's 5" gauge 0-4-0 Rail Motor, serialised in ME between April 1968 and March 1969 is considered by many to be an ideal beginners loco. Compact, yet powerful for its size, castings and drawings are available from the usual suspects and it is a relatively straightforward build.

The ME build series describes tender and tank variants of the design. I spent ages vacillating on what of the many designs to build as a first loco before settling on the tender version of the Rail Motor myself.

Clive

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